Lost Issue: The Composer Guy

by Mike Shapiro

Mike Shapiro: You seem to have kept a very low profile since Cable Guy and Snow White.

John Ottman: (Sighs.) Well I've kinda been strapped to a god damned editing chair for the last few months, but I'm trying to make up for lost time! Yeah, a lot was wasted. After Snow White, Apt Pupil was supposed to happen about a hundred times, but it kept falling through, as was another project Bryan and I were going to do. Apt was originally set up at Spelling, and the decree was: don't take any jobs, because the movie is going to start any second. So I waited and waited and waited, with nothing materializing. That kept going on for a period of months, as I was declared "unavailable." The film then fell apart, and months later finally ended up going to Phoenix Pictures, where Mike Medavoy believed in the project and picked it up. Just as that happened, after all that waiting, I was offered Incognito. And there was no way in hell I wasn't going to score it. It was a real composer's kind of film, directed by John Badham -- huge sections for score unencumbered by dialog or effects. I had to do it. I paid for it though. When I returned from Seattle after recording the score, I was returning to piles and piles of film because Apt had been shooting for three weeks. Ugh.

MS: So how long did the whole process last?

JO: I guess it was about eight months. Long months.

MS: Now in Suspects you said being editor gave you an edge, because it gave you better control over the story that you were going to score, and a better understanding of that story as well. Was that the case with Apt Pupil?

JO: Well, I think it still gave me a better understanding. And I'd say, yeah sure, it gave me a little more control. But on Suspects I was much younger and more spry! It was a little easier for me to be a maniac between the editing room and the composing studio. This time I guess ultimately editing was an advantage, but bitter-sweetly in that once I was ready to write the score I had literally three weeks left. Which, yes, was what happened on Suspects, but it seemed a lot more dreary this time around, because I wanted to edit much less. The irony was that by the time I was ready to do what I love to do - compose - I was so burnt out that the thought of writing an entire score was almost unthinkable.

MS: Was it a longer stint of editing than that of Suspects?

JO: It was about the same. It felt longer ... it was mainly just a burnout thing, and I think it was exacerbated by the fact that the film was so dark and dreary and relentlessly unforgiving. There's no redemption whatever in the film. There's no comic relief (and this is what makes it unique and bold) but, day in and day out there was always some scene that was drearier than the next! Then I finally get to write the score, and it's brooding, dreary, depressing. The score of course comes from your soul, so I guess in a sense it was good that I scored the film. I was in such a dreary mood by that point it sort of made sense! Although I was on a mission to bring some emotion to the film in an odd sort of way with the score to try and "dimensionalize" it to make it into a deeper experience. The holocaust played a role in the film kind of like Keyser Soze did in Suspects. Always there, but never really seen. That enabled me the leeway to create a more elegant score than one might expect from a thriller.

MS: The music itself definitely has the "Ottman-esqe" arch-romantic sound reminiscent of Usual Suspects, but it also has a sense of its own musical identity, and it sounds like you're heading down new musical paths...I guess I should turn this into a question. How would you describe your approach to the film compositionally and the concept behind the score?

JO: Um, I should drink some coffee before I answer that ... Basically, it was the same situation as Suspects but more difficult. The music had to support a talky movie in limited local; Like Suspects, the music's mission (as was the editing's), was to keep it interesting. Although Suspects was also very dialogue-heavy, you still had action sequences breaking it up, and you had a wild story, because it's sort of this fantasy about this Darth Vaderian character. But with Apt, it's basically an old man and a young boy, which is usually film death. So I guess the approach was to bring in a history of the character and use that as a sort of intrigue device to keep the audience involved. The character is an ex-Nazi and has a lot of history behind him, so the music tries to be reminiscent in that regard. Germanic, dark...whatever he is speaks about the past.

And the opening of course was a huge opportunity to sort of let my hair down and go because I wouldn't be able to do so much expository stuff throughout the film... We had filmed some old photos, and I decided to make that an integral story part of the film, by creating a sequence with these war photos, which helped serve to also set up a lot of the story. This montage lasts for three plus minutes, with the accompanying score. So it was my chance to really use editing and at the same time establish the themes and sort of go hog-wild a bit.

MS: It also seems like there was a lot more aleatoric or effecty writing than you've ever done.

JO: Yeah, I couldn't always be as melodic as I wanted to in some cases; it was the nature of the film. It's just a different kind of score, where you have dream sequences of gas chambers and so forth. Where normally I would go more melodic in those areas, desperately trying to draw upon some theme that would give the film some cohesion, here I felt we I just had to go for a weird/intrigue factor.

MS: Was this also a blend of the synth effects with the live orchestra as you've done before?

JO: Well, yeah, but I always end up dumping 3/4 of the synth I think I'm going to need. I use the synths out of protection; If it doesn't sound the way I want to sound, I'm going to be covered if I have some synth effects. However the hope is that what I've written for orchestra will work. On Apt Pupil, the orchestral attempts were really successful emulating the effects I had written, so I sort of let them go. I feel so much more satisfied when the orchestra is doing all the magic.

MS: Your first films for Bryan were smaller, independent projects. Apt Pupil is a much bigger picture. Do you think your relationship with Bryan has been consistent between the two films?

JO: Yes, except perhaps I'm given less scrutiny now...He always lets me do what I want to do, but because Suspects was my first big score, I could tell he was a little insecure. He always refrained from controlling it too much because he trusted me, but I also knew he didn't sleep so easily at night, because a part of him wasn't sure. This time it was different. I've done a few more movies now, and I think I've proven myself to him to the extent that when he heard something and had a question mark in his mind he would just let me do it, and I really don't think he felt the strain this time. He just really let me write my score, and had a few comments here or there but let me go completely. Part of the reason too is because I kept harping on him about how much I hate having the film temp scored as Suspects was, which was a real security blanket for him. I told him that on Cable Guy, Snow White and even Incognito there was very little temp score or attention paid to it. I tried to stress that I would create a better score if I was allowed to just do my own thing, not to be beholden to any temp score at all." Fortunately, Apt Pupil was a totally impossible film to temp score -- nothing existed that worked for this movie; so by default I was able to do what I asked, and that was to ignore it! So I think I created a better score because of it, and I think I finally proved that to him. That meant a lot to me. And I think I garnered even more trust as a result.

MS: You described your editing and scoring on Suspects as segregate processes - where you weren't really working on the music while you were editing, and approached the music only when the film was done. Was it the same way with Apt Pupil?

JO: Yes, but this one had me very worried. On Suspects I guess about three fourths of the way through editing I was starting to think of themes, but on this one nothing was coming to me at all. I was practically near the end of editing, and I had this little secret which was: What the hell am I going to do?! And somehow like I mentioned before when you just have to do it, you do it. You look in the mirror with baggy eyes and say to yourself, "In a little over three weeks you'll be watching an orchestra perform a score that you are somehow now going to write. May the Force be With You." The funny thing about the theme is that I just went upstairs without picture when I was near the end of the editing process, and just composed this 3 minute and 20 second piece of music just for the hell of it. I had just created the title sequence, but I had no visual to bring up to my music studio to score to because it was just one of these whim things to experiment with music. I did a synth mockup, and just for fun brought it downstairs on a DAT, digitized it and did a rough synch onto the title sequence ... and it fit like a glove, as if I had scored to picture! It's like for a brief moment, the planets aligned for me. When I actually went to score the scene I made very few changes, just nips and tucks here or there to give some sequences a little more finesse. The final orchestral title sequence almost note for note reflected my original synth demo, and that's how fast it had to be.

MS: Maybe unconsciously you had been working on the music...

JO: Maybe. It's a weird process, and I don't know how it works. The only time of discordance between me and Bryan was when I premiered this theme with the sequence. This was actually the one moment he was freaked out. All of a sudden he's hearing the entire theme of his film for the first time, synced to visuals. He looked at me, and I could tell he hated it. Fortunately, to make a long story short, it grew on him and ended up staying intact. Now he loves it.

MS: How do you fight that kind of initial opposition?

JO: A couple of drinks...and definite sleeping pills. When he didn't like it, I went to bed feeling like I was never going to write this score, because that was the theme I wanted to write, and I felt sick to my stomach that in the short amount of time I had I was not going to be inspired by anything else. He knew it really hurt me, and I know he felt badly. We have the relationship where he also knew I didn't hold it against him, despite the fact I felt awful. So I think he did too. I was creatively devastated, because I felt that this is what it should be. But when I freak out like that, Bryan seems to give it weight because he values my instincts. So when we had some executives come over to look at my title sequence, we played it with my synth rendering without telling them it was. Because it sounded pretty real, Bryan said "All right, let's play this for them and we'll see what they think ,... but don't tell them that it's your music. For all they know, it's temp score." So we played it for them, and, unsolicited, they couldn't stop talking about how much they loved the music. That was the beginning of the theme staying alive. So I slept easier that night. So once that sequence was given the blessing, I knew I was free to write what I wanted to write. .. Although the heart palpitations lasted through the mix.

MS: You've always worked with Bryan in the dual capacity of editor and composer. Do you see this as something that's going to continue in your future collaborations?

JO: Yeah, but ultimately the editing role may change to something more supervisorial. Bryan knows it's very frustrating for me when I could score two movies in the time it takes to edit one. And so at some point it's going to evolve into a different role. However I think I still will edit the next one [X-Men]. It could be my last... well , I really can't say that... I really don't know what will happen. It's easy for me to say this, but I somehow think that knowing me I somehow will end up "in the chair" again... that's a good name for it: "The Chair". The film will be of such a gargantuan nature there will really be no human way I can do both all the way through. We'll have to bring in a second editor, which will be unique for me because I'm a control freak. And it'll be interesting to see how that works out, because with that sort of movie they're going to have multiple test-screenings and multiple changes, and I'm probably going to have to write an hour and a half of music, and at some point I'm simply going to have to bail on the editing front.

MS: Are you excited about working on a film with such a built-in following and cult fan base?

JO: I think I'm excited musically. Editorially, I'm terrified about pulling it off. My fear is trying to both please the fans and make the film accessible to others. X-Men is such a strange world that looks great in a comic book; trying to pass off stuff like that on a movie screen, well -- I'm concerned about its intelligence and laughability being kept in proper balance.

MS: Are you a fan of the comic?

JO: I never knew anything about it until a few months ago, but have realized during the past few months the number of fans who are out there who will come out of the woodwork and the passion behind these fans, and how strongly they feel about the characters in this film. It's sort of like the way I was when Star Trek: The Motion Picture was going to come out. I was extremely concerned; I went to Star Trek conventions asking George Takei what the transporter room looked like and if they changed it too much. It was like a religious experience, and to me Star Trek itself was at stake because of this movie coming out. So I know how these fans feel, and they're going to be extremely concerned because X-Men is at stake, literally, by having this movie come out, having a re-definition of what X-Men now is. So it really is a difficult thing... how do you make an intelligent movie and pass off a bunch of characters in leotards? So you have to alter things, and by altering the story you can piss off the fans.

MS: Do you have any sense of what it'll be like musically?

JO: Uh, there's going to be a lot of it! The great thing about a movie like that is that I'll be able to really sink my teeth into character themes, and I think it'll be a lot more fun musically.... (Suddenly looks worried) Although it may not be.

MS: That'll be a great follow-up story: "Before...after"

(Laughs)

To be Concluded...

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