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Probably LETHAL WEAPON for me. I liked DIE HARD as well, but the LW movies were just more important to me when I was growing up ...
So does that tell anyone anything about a "vs" of film score series? No, it doesn't. And it shouldn't. It's two different franchises. Entirely. Which happened to be scored by, mostly, the same man. And that's where the comparison ends.
On a purely compositional level I'd say that DIE HARD WITH A VENGEANCE was one of the finest scores Michael Kamen ever wrote (and people who recall that when I use the term wrote without quotation marks, I do so deliberately), maybe even the finest.
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The first two LETHAL movies in particular have quiet moments where Kamen and Clapton took the opportunity to do extended, soulful guitar solos. Those scenes (and that music) really resonated with me.
Yes, and they might have with me, too. But that's not telling you (or me, or anyone) anything about the quality of the music. With the aforementioned WITH THE VENGEANCE, I do realize that the scoring is of superior quality, a level of integration and orchestration, that Kamen never before, or after, reached.
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Posted: |
Dec 12, 2013 - 11:34 AM
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By: |
Tom Servo
(Member)
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The first two LETHAL movies in particular have quiet moments where Kamen and Clapton took the opportunity to do extended, soulful guitar solos. Those scenes (and that music) really resonated with me.
Yes, and they might have with me, too. But that's not telling you (or me, or anyone) anything about the quality of the music. With the aforementioned WITH THE VENGEANCE, I do realize that the scoring is of superior quality, a level of integration and orchestration, that Kamen never before, or after, reached.
But isn't that question of the quality of the music still subjective? I mean, can you really say that the quiet, soulful moments of guitar solos in LETHAL WEAPON are somehow of lesser quality than what is heard in DIE HARD WITH A VENGEANCE? Is it just a matter of how many players or how many notes are being heard? Or are you simply more biased to consider the fully orchestral option better quality, musically speaking? I think they are both of high quality, just different.
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Posted: |
Dec 12, 2013 - 11:56 AM
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By: |
John Mullin
(Member)
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Yeah, not being a musician, I don't really think about or judge music in those terms.
I usually think about what the music does for the scene it appears in. Does it work for the scene (and the movie as a whole)? Do you like it on its own? Do you think about it later? Those are the only relevant questions for me, really. I don't think about the number of players or the complexity of the music... just how effective it is.
I'm usually unable to spot or articulate the quality of orchestration, honestly (unless it's really blatant). I'm a little more aware of performance, I suppose, but I miss things that a skilled musician wouldn't.
I guess I evaluate film music as something that exists to serve the movie, and not necessarily as music that is meant to exist on its own, like a concert work is. Sometimes a scene needs really simple music. Sometimes it needs no music. It's there to serve the movie... not to give the composer an excuse to record material that will sound great on a CD. I love it when a composer gets the opportunity to do both, but it's more important that they write music that works for the movie.
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As someone who has worked very closely on both franchises over the past few years I can honestly say the major difference between the two scores is the SOUL...Lethal Weapon, for all it's bombastic energy, has more soul to it than the Die Hard films. Clapton's guitar work for Rigg's theme and Sanborn's sax for Murtaugh's theme are two of my favorite themes I have ever heard in any film.
MV
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Posted: |
Dec 12, 2013 - 12:29 PM
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By: |
Michael24
(Member)
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I've honestly never been a big Kamen fan. No disrespect meant, as he was certainly a talented musician, and from all the interviews I've seen looked like a really fun, pleasant guy to be around. I just never really connected with his particular style. (Although I love Prince of Thieves, which remains my favorite score of his.)
Between the two, I always preferred the Lethal Weapon music. I was never that into the classical influence of his scores for Die Hard. They certainly have their moments, and they do their job within the films, but they are scores I could never really listen to on their own. Maybe a "best of" spotlighting all the highlights would be cool. Lethal Weapon I like more, and I realize now that MV has pointed it out, it's because it has more of a soul. That's a great way of putting it.
Filmwise, I enjoy both, although the fifth Die Hard and fourth Lethal Weapon are pretty awful in many ways. (But I'd rather watch the latter than the former.) The original three films of both were big favorites of mine growing up, though. I leaned slightly more to the LW side because of the excellent interplay between Mel Gibson and Danny Glover.
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The Die Hard's are a different beast. They're straight up action, suspense scoring. Alternately thrilling, fun, brutal and quiet (particularly the first film). Die Hard brought Kamen to my attention and I loved a lot of his work, but the Die Hard's and LW's were my favorites.
The Lethal Weapon franchise scores were more fun as they played off the characters more than the Die Hard's. But when Kamen let loose with cues like We're Leaving (Freeway Chase) and Armored Car Chase, they were just as rip snorting as any Die Hard piece.
Yeah, I'd agree with MV - it's all about soul. La la laaaaa.
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I never warmed up to the Lethal Weapon soundtrack albums, but I really like the music as it appears in the respective films. This is why I'm eagerly looking forward to the comprehensive LLL set. I also like the Die Hard scores, particularly in their expanded configuration, and I think the first Die Hard is a very wry and witty score. So I'm coming at this as somebody who likes the scores for both franchises, but I haven't heard the Beltrami scores for these last two movies.
I would say that I think that the Lethal Weapon scores do more to connect the audience to the two main characters in the respective films than anything Die Hard does to connect you to John McClane (this is not to say that the films themselves don't connect the viewer with McClane — particularly the first one — but the music tends to be the province of the bad guys in that series). Both Roger and Riggs' respective themes are extremely soulful works that help to add a great deal of emotional continuity through that series, even when the stories got a little overblown.
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