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Amazing! I'm buying!
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Amazing! I'm buying!
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Posted: |
Mar 6, 2014 - 7:42 AM
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By: |
TerraEpon
(Member)
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In my mind, a genuine piano reduction is done by the composer for demonstration or tuition purposes and requires both compositional brilliance and virtuoso-level piano skill to pull off successfully.
Er, why must it be done by the composer? In the 19th century almost all orchestral works were given a two piano or piano duet (granted usually the later) treatment for publishing purposes and while the composer sometimes did it, it was NOT usually the case, but someone employed at the publishing company....or another composer (especially in France. Bizet, Debussy, Faure, Widor, Saint-Saens, etc etc all did this, especially when they were younger)
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Posted: |
Mar 6, 2014 - 3:39 PM
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By: |
Tall Guy
(Member)
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In my mind, a genuine piano reduction is done by the composer for demonstration or tuition purposes and requires both compositional brilliance and virtuoso-level piano skill to pull off successfully.
Er, why must it be done by the composer? In the 19th century almost all orchestral works were given a two piano or piano duet (granted usually the later) treatment for publishing purposes and while the composer sometimes did it, it was NOT usually the case, but someone employed at the publishing company....or another composer (especially in France. Bizet, Debussy, Faure, Widor, Saint-Saens, etc etc all did this, especially when they were younger)
You really answer your own question by quoting the first three words above - it's a personal thing. I believe that a composer knows his or her own work better than anyone, and it would be naïve to think that there are no decisions to be made when reducing a work as massive as the DDS 4th to four-handed piano. It's Shostakovich interpreted by Shostakovich, in the case of the 4th and the 15th.
Get someone else to do it and it's composer x filtered through orchestrator y's sensibilities - even if those sensibilities are impeccable.
That may also be why my greatest respect is for those composers who orchestrate their own work. The colours in a composition are made in the orchestra and humming a melody to an orchestrator and signing off what they produce isn't the same as writing it down yourself, instrument by instrument, on music paper (or the modern equivalent). I don't know enough about music to know where the line is when it comes to giving directions to one or more orchestrators because you haven't got enough time or whatever, but I do know that if you compose and orchestrate 100% yourself, there's no doubt involved. If the music's great, it's all your own work; if it's disappointing, ditto.
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I am a huge piano fan, with complete collections by Horowitz and Graffman and nearly complete ones by Rubinstein and Pollini and Cliburn and the great Emil Gilels (and many others). And I happen to love both single and double piano transcriptions of familiar pieces from the standard repertoire, such as Dvorák's "Slavonic Dances" and Holst's "The Planets," and even have a double piano version of Mahler's 1st symphony -- and let's not forget the piano transcriptions of the Beethoven symphonies. So I'm a good candidate to buy this recording. But I found too much of it quite manic, even exhausting, and so will, instead, just cherry-pick, buying "Across The Stars," "Leia's Theme," and "Han And Leia."
But I find it interesting that they included "Parade Of The Ewoks" from "Return of the Jedi," which, of course, is Williams' verrrrrrrry slight variation of the "March" from Prokofiev's ballet "The Love For 3 Oranges," and Prokofiev rarely gets credit for it.
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Posted: |
Mar 7, 2014 - 7:13 PM
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By: |
Ludwig van
(Member)
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I also love that it brings Williams' compositional skills straight to the forefront... no hiding behind dense orchestrations or layers of electronics here, and I daresay the music sounds better than ever!
Not to go negative, but I don't think many of today's young whippersnappers would fare nearly as well under such a scenario.
I'd agree, Matt. Though I have nothing against other ways of composing, it's always nice when film music can make that transition from orchestra to piano. It's really a matter of what's emphasized. In Williams, it's melody, harmony, and phrase structure, which translate beautifully to the piano, whereas many newer scores simply cannot translate because they emphasize percussive rhythms, textural layering, and timbral colours, which have no equivalent on the piano.
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TerraEpon: Re: 1) Dvorak's Slavonic Dances were written for piano duet originally
2) If you think that Parade of the Ewoks actually sounds like Prokofiev's march in anything greater than an homage, you need to get your ears checked.
Yes, you're right that Dvorák originally composed his 2 sets of "Slavonic Dances" for 4 hands, but they became so popular with full orchestra that concert audiences rarely hear them played with 2 pianos anymore, and I sometimes mistakenly think of them as transcriptions, which, as you kindly pointed out, they aren't. I think I have 3 different recordings of them with 4 hands and at least 4 with orchestra -- a longtime favorite is by George Szell, although I enjoy my Philips SACD conducted by Ivan Fischer. Apparently it was at Dvorák's publisher's request that he orchestrated them.
As for your second point, I just played them 3 times in succession and stand by my claim -- I see far too much similarity to call it a mere "homage." And my hearing is just fine.
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Posted: |
Mar 8, 2014 - 3:35 AM
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By: |
Tall Guy
(Member)
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I also love that it brings Williams' compositional skills straight to the forefront... no hiding behind dense orchestrations or layers of electronics here, and I daresay the music sounds better than ever!
Not to go negative, but I don't think many of today's young whippersnappers would fare nearly as well under such a scenario.
I'd agree, Matt. Though I have nothing against other ways of composing, it's always nice when film music can make that transition from orchestra to piano. It's really a matter of what's emphasized. In Williams, it's melody, harmony, and phrase structure, which translate beautifully to the piano, whereas many newer scores simply cannot translate because they emphasize percussive rhythms, textural layering, and timbral colours, which have no equivalent on the piano.
Are you familiar with the piano transcription of the Shostakovich 4th? I'm no musician but all of those things are miraculously included to my way of thinking.
I also took some time last night to track down the Beethoven/Liszt symphonies on YouTube. Glenn Gould playing the 5th and parts of the Pastorale was revelatory, and I also enjoyed very much Katsaris playing Eroica and excerpts from the 7th.
TG
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