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This is a comments thread about FSM CD: Ben-Hur
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 12:29 PM   
 By:   Long Island Dave   (Member)

It is annoying to hear people complain about a release not being valid or important enough to warrant 5 discs. If you don't like or want it don't get it but stop complaining. Many newer sound tracks inluding friday the 13 are not to my taste but I wouldn,t go to a site and complain. To each his own, again Thanks Lukas for a great release ( my opinion)

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 2:10 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

A superflous release. All relevant bases covered already.

I'm not buying this watermelon!



Lukas puts the SUPER in "SUPERfluous."

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 3:25 PM   
 By:   classicmoviesfan   (Member)

I'm sure many will disagree with me but I would like to have some objection about this new release. I am a great fan of Miklos Rozsa and many of the CDs in my film music collection are his own. In fact among the first CDs I have purchased for this collection is the double CD set of Ben-Hur from Rhino Records. I don't think one could wish more than that, about 2 and a half hours of the original and complete soundtrack conducted by the composer himself. Besides Ben-Hur has so large a discography that any addition hardly seems necessary. Of course it's a fine work to release a 5-disc set dedicated to this monumental score but my opinion is that it would be better to release more Rozsa scores that either are completely neglected and unknown in discography or small portions of them have been recorded so far. Miklos Rozsa's film scores are a treasure still waiting to be discovered fully. Among the 90 scores he wrote many remain obscure and hard to find. It would be wonderful if these lost gems were found and offered to all Rozsa fans to enjoy. Knight Without Armour (1937), The Four Feathers (1939), Lydia (1941), Lady Hamilton (1941), Four Graves to Cairo (1943), Sahara (1943), Dark Waters (1944), A Double Life (1947) that won him an Oscar, The Red Danube (1949), Beau Brummell (1954).

Hi ClassicMovieFan: Sadly, most of those 1940s scores no longer have surviving master tapes.

We included The Red Danube and Beau Brummell on our Rozsa box set, of which there are only 40 copies left:
http://www.screenarchives.com/title_detail.cfm/ID/13181/MIKLOS-ROZSA-TREASURY-2000-EDITION/

Lukas


Thank you. I know about this box set of fifteen discs of Rozsa music and I hope I can get a copy before they disappear. It's really a great pity we can't have the scores I referred to in their original recordings. By the way, there is no movie titled Four Graves to Cairo. I'm afraid I forgot one more grave. The film is called Five Graves to Cairo. Please don't misunderstand my objection about the new release of Ben-Hur. I can guess how much work and love you have put into this album just as you have done with all the others. Just keep on producing and be sure all of us who love classic film music will support you.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 3:55 PM   
 By:   Loverozsa   (Member)

It never ceases to amaze me that a few people on this message board are constantly
nit-picking and complaining. With the tremendous announcement of this "Ben-Hur" deluxe set,
discussions on the board have degravitated into what consitutes a "box" release, chiding
Lukas (poor soul) for giving false information that he was releasing no more boxes.. Now, we have someone describing the new "Ben Hur" release as "superflous" and referring to it as a "watermelon". What a joke!!!!

Some people can't find anything good to say about anything, and we have more than our
share on this board. Criticism has a valid place in discussion, but, to be valid, it should have
the objective of improving something. In many cases, that is not the case here, particularly in
this thread. Did anyone stop to think that one of the reasons Lukas is terminating the release
of recordings for FSM is that he's sick of reading drek like this?

From "The Wizard Of Oz"

Dorothy (to the Scarecrow") How can you talk when you haven't got a brain?
The Scarecrow- I know alot of people who haven't got a brain AND DO A LOT OF
TALKING.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 4:19 PM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

I'm not buying this watermelon!

You sound like the guy (to adapt Lukas' now legendary proverb) who picks up a watermelon in a grocery store and announces to the world, "I'm not buying this watermelon!"


I think that was Ed's mocking point!





You missed the funny part. Funny part at 7:00.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 5:11 PM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

Could I be the first to nit-pick the notes, which are otherwise fine. Simonides is not blinded in the dungeon but cripplied.

Or did I misread this part?

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 6:05 PM   
 By:   Frank DeWald   (Member)

Could I be the first to nit-pick the notes, which are otherwise fine. Simonides is not blinded in the dungeon but cripplied.

Or did I misread this part?


Duly noted, pp. Thank you. This will be corrected. One great thing about online notes!

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 7:49 PM   
 By:   alberthill.1   (Member)

I suppose I'll have to live with the Rhino release.

*sigh* Same here, unfortunately.
I am sure this release is great,BUT. I already have the Rhino issue which is excellent,and a favourite of mine,to buy the new release is simply to buy the same music again,albeit, EXPANDED. How many times have we heard THAT word from all the soundtrack labels??? For those who dont have the Rhino release,then go for it,but I am not doubling up on the same music,I would rather get a score I dont have. I am getting to the stage where I say ,do I really need another expanded score....the answer is NO!

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 8:02 PM   
 By:   filmusicnow   (Member)

ok my 2 cents , this probably is the greatest score out of Rozsa'a catalogue , its from FSM so you know it will be mastered correctly and the sound quality will be superb, its all the music and then some from Ben Hur , 60 bucks is a Steel for 5 cds and beats the pootang out of Spartacus , oh and one more thing , ITS BEN HUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

smile



I ordered mine, and it's going to be GREAT!!!!

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 8:12 PM   
 By:   peterproud   (Member)

I'm sure many will disagree with me but I would like to have some objection about this new release. I am a great fan of Miklos Rozsa and many of the CDs in my film music collection are his own. In fact among the first CDs I have purchased for this collection is the double CD set of Ben-Hur from Rhino Records. I don't think one could wish more than that, about 2 and a half hours of the original and complete soundtrack conducted by the composer himself. Besides Ben-Hur has so large a discography that any addition hardly seems necessary. Of course it's a fine work to release a 5-disc set dedicated to this monumental score but my opinion is that it would be better to release more Rozsa scores that either are completely neglected and unknown in discography or small portions of them have been recorded so far. Miklos Rozsa's film scores are a treasure still waiting to be discovered fully. Among the 90 scores he wrote many remain obscure and hard to find. It would be wonderful if these lost gems were found and offered to all Rozsa fans to enjoy. Knight Without Armour (1937), The Four Feathers (1939), Lydia (1941), Lady Hamilton (1941), Four Graves to Cairo (1943), Sahara (1943), Dark Waters (1944), A Double Life (1947) that won him an Oscar, The Red Danube (1949), Beau Brummell (1954).

Hi ClassicMovieFan: Sadly, most of those 1940s scores no longer have surviving master tapes.

We included The Red Danube and Beau Brummell on our Rozsa box set, of which there are only 40 copies left:
http://www.screenarchives.com/title_detail.cfm/ID/13181/MIKLOS-ROZSA-TREASURY-2000-EDITION/

Lukas


Thank you. I know about this box set of fifteen discs of Rozsa music and I hope I can get a copy before they disappear. It's really a great pity we can't have the scores I referred to in their original recordings. By the way, there is no movie titled Four Graves to Cairo. I'm afraid I forgot one more grave. The film is called Five Graves to Cairo. Please don't misunderstand my objection about the new release of Ben-Hur. I can guess how much work and love you have put into this album just as you have done with all the others. Just keep on producing and be sure all of us who love classic film music will support you.



That was so very well said....I wish there were more posters like you who can question a release but still have the inclination to recognize its validity - and to show respect for the work that has gone into a release like this. Well done.

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 9:22 PM   
 By:   Amer Zahid   (Member)

I have the 2cd Rhino set in the long box book format!. I also have the decca phase 4 recording highlights as well as various suites on other Rozsa compilation cds. I looked for the 2cd Sony edtion but avoided as I felt after the release of the Miklos Rozsa set (sans Ben Hur) that a full defintive edition would happen some day (from FSM). It finaly happened. This is film music history. 2000 limited edition is perhaps less but then sales statistics dictate a different reality. Im glad to get this definitive edition. Kudos to Lukas and the team et al.

 
 Posted:   Feb 19, 2012 - 1:15 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

I think people aren't looking at this quite right. Yes, this release is five discs, but a disc and a half of it is from LPs.
Added to that, the first two discs total 8-9 less than the Rhino.

All in all it's about an hour and a half extra....not much more than a single CD worth. It's still a lot 'extra' but far from what people are claiming.





ONE .... NONE of it is 'from LPs'. The LP tracks are taken from the ORIGINAL TAPES of the LPs. These are not LP remasterings.

TWO .... Those LPs are a quite different work than the OST. They are NOT inferior, but present the music in a different way, with plenty of total reworkings NOT in the alternative or OST material.

THREE .... As could be verified by just a cursory glance at this thread's posts or just the tracklist, the Rhino was longer on Discs 1 and 2 because it threw in some alternatives here and there. The FSM will contain much more than the Rhino.

FOUR ..... You try selling a separate CD of alternatives only. What would you call it? 'Ben-Hur: The Other Bits'. What sort of aesthetic or commercial bollocks would that display?

FIVE .... it seems clear from the Mps that the remastering will be better than ever across the board.

SIX .... for students of the score, there'll be more comprehensive notes that are MUSICALLY INFORMED than ever before.

SEVEN .... you're really helping the marketing here, aren't you?

 
 Posted:   Feb 19, 2012 - 1:21 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

Question for Lukas: Has the sound of the Rome-recorded original soundtrack pieces (as opposed to the excellent Culver City sound) been improved over the Rhino release? There was a very noticeable difference in quality between the two sets of recordings on the Rhino, and I'm wondering/hoping if FSM has been able to give the Rome-recorded cues a worthwhile improvement.

 
 Posted:   Feb 19, 2012 - 1:32 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

People who honestly think they must get every single shred of every single piece of film music even in a score as distinguished as this one, while at the same time almost all of the material has already been released previously, seriously need to get a life!




ONE ... People who study this score musically DO want to hear every shred, because music is variation and orchestration as well as melodic and harmonic composition. Miklos Rozsa could do remarkable things, create remarkable effects he didn't understand himself probably (and this also stretches to other performances of the same pieces). It's clear enough to me that many posters don't really listen to the music, and have only a cursory interest in the creative processes of the composers. But the musicians out there (apart from the ones who are too narcissistic to listen and only want to play) WILL want to hear how he achieved different takes. That's a lesson in creativity.

TWO .... Since when has 'almost all of the material already been released'? There are many more alternative cues on this than ever were before, and those that were previously released were in very inferior sound on a bootleg.

THREE ..... A film-music collector can't tell other film-music collectors to 'get a life'. Some folk think the whole hobby/interest/passion itself is nerdy, and would exhort us ALL to 'get a life'. Maybe our good Lukas has 'got a life' thanks to the credit crunch and his upcoming nuptials, and maybe, just maybe you'll be the worse off for the lack of these releases.

FOUR .... what's the need for this attitude anyhow? If it's not ego, what is it? Why rain on this?

 
 Posted:   Feb 19, 2012 - 1:39 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

Please don't misunderstand my objection about the new release of Ben-Hur. I can guess how much work and love you have put into this album just as you have done with all the others. Just keep on producing and be sure all of us who love classic film music will support you.


Lovely sentiment, but you appear to be somewhat ex-loop.

FSM and Lukas have announced that they will stop producing CDs this year, so there'll be nothing to support. Puts it all in a different light, doesn't it?

 
 Posted:   Feb 19, 2012 - 1:39 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

I admire your efforts to respond intelligently to someone I've had on the ignore list since he wrote so eloquently about the original series Star Trek composers. I believe the term "get a life" also turned up in that thread. Strange coincidence, that.

Keep fighting the good fight, WILLIAMDMCCRUM, if you enjoy it . . . or else there's always the ignore function too.

 
 Posted:   Feb 19, 2012 - 1:56 PM   
 By:   Dr. Lao   (Member)

Lukas, we would love a 'making of' the Ben-Hur CD set, with all the steps of producion and distribution. Do it, please!

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 19, 2012 - 5:10 PM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)



........


SEVEN .... you're really helping the marketing here, aren't you?


Well geeze, I was trying to put a positive spin on it, no need to flame me or get overly pedantic for agreeing with you.

My main point is that people are yapping about how it's 5CDs vs. the 2 from the Rhino, when it's not. It's more like 3.4 vs. 2, and there's very little redundancy (mainly that march that shows up on two of the LPs and a few tracks where there's "choral only" and "orchestra only" stuff).

And so many people are bitching here about "every last note" yet they seem to love it when a company adds a completely redundant 'album version'?

 
 Posted:   Feb 19, 2012 - 5:18 PM   
 By:   Eric Paddon   (Member)

That people should complain that this score, one of the greatest of all time, somehow doesn't need all the extra and alternate material when the stock in trade of an FSM release is to GIVE us all the alternate material that can be found in the vault for a particular score, strikes me as the height of absurdity. If anything, the FSM standard for other scores from MGM is the *reason* why the Rhino release has reeked of obsolescence on my shelf for quite a few years now because to me there has always been something self-consciously annoying about the fact that every other MGM score of note released by FSM and certainly every other Rozsa MGM score, has had the extra mile done for it, but "Ben Hur" remained all alone.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 19, 2012 - 5:26 PM   
 By:   paul rossen   (Member)

That people should complain that this score, one of the greatest of all time, somehow doesn't need all the extra and alternate material when the stock in trade of an FSM release is to GIVE us all the alternate material that can be found in the vault for a particular score, strikes me as the height of absurdity. If anything, the FSM standard for other scores from MGM is the *reason* why the Rhino release has reeked of obsolescence on my shelf for quite a few years now because to me there has always been something self-consciously annoying about the fact that every other MGM score of note released by FSM and certainly every other Rozsa MGM score, has had the extra mile done for it, but "Ben Hur" remained all alone.


Agree 100%. And I'm sure that the FSM release will sound a lot better than the Rhino. Enough said.

 
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