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| This is a comments thread about Blog Post: Ben-Hur Lives! by Lukas Kendall |
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Posted: |
Mar 9, 2012 - 7:31 PM
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By: |
pp312
(Member)
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Well, I'm with Basil and one or two others here in that I feel the real tragedy is not that Lukas decided to meet demand beyond 2000 copies--that's his right and a sound business decision. The real tragedy is that there's only 2000-4000 people who actually want to buy this wonderful music. Wouldn't it be great if Lukas had to meet a demand for 50,000 copies? Or 5,000,000, such as a Michael Jackson re-issue might garner? Maybe instead of whinging we should be rejoicing that at least there are more than 2,000 people with good taste in the world, and that we're among them.
"If thou can'st find but 4,000 buyers of this brilliant release, then I will spare the city for the 4000's sake".
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Erik, when you calm down, you're going to realise you've sold items that won't return. It AGAIN needs to be stressed that FSM is going out of business.
Item that won't return, hum, let me think about that...PREDATOR- 3 releases...'burbs- 2 releases...WALK IN THE CLOUDS-2 releases...LOGAN'S RUN-3 releases (FSM release was 7000)...FRANTIC-2 releases...OMEGA MAN- 2 releases...DIE HARD-2 releases...still thinking...STAR TREK MOVIES...EXORCIST II:THE HERETIC-2 releases...THE SAND PEBBLES- 2-release, shall I go on. If the music is good enough, the call will be there for it and it will be re-issued, I can wait for a different labels to put it out.
*same guy that bought my Rosza Box, just bought my LASSIE COMES HOME Set, NORTHWEST PASSAGE: CLASSIC WESTERN SCORES FROM MGM VOL. 2 set, Elmer Bernstein's Film Music Collection (1975-1979) set and the DAVID RAKSIN AT M-G-M set. All were used and I got less than what I paid for them, so go ahead and call me a speculator. Also, just cancelled my order for IT'S ALIVE and STAR TREK VI.
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Wow. Just wow. I'm astounded.
To Lukas I would say the following: "Well done, FSM was amazing. You brought so much amazing music to an eternally grateful audience. Sorry about the ones who were utterly ungrateful and cared more about the number on the back of the case than the music on the disc."
I have so much respect for all the guys who work so hard to run these speciality labels that we're so lucky to have. I really don't feel like singling someone out in this situation is the grown up thing to do, but he's got me so utterly baffled, I feel I have to say that I sincerely hope that his Ben Hur related disappointment is the most difficult thing Erik Donovan has to deal with for a while. You don't seem to have coped too well. It's a bit worrying. Selling all your discs? Really? I'm genuinely amazed. There have to be bigger things than this, actually worthy of spitting the dummy out and throwing (or selling) all your FSM toys out of the pram. You'll regret it one day. I urge you to keep your collection.
Anyone else remember when FSM decided to press another lot of the Superman set? Pretty good idea. Sure.... the new booklets stated "2nd edition" and maybe.... maybe.... the same thing could have been done with Ben Hur. But, it wasn't. No big deal. Lukas isn't evil. Let's move on and be thankful that this amazing music is available AT ALL.
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Lukas: "I want to explain very clearly the reason (after the jump)."
This is an actual frame from the film. Note the camera at right.
One of the cameras was ACTUALLY damaged during the filming of the chariot race, much to the chagrin of M.G.M..
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Posted: |
Mar 10, 2012 - 3:41 AM
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By: |
John Smith
(Member)
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"Actually, I don't want anything. I just feel uneasy that Doug Fake - a man of consummate integrity - was flayed on his own website for daring to toy with the idea of pressing a second edition of Inchon, whereas Lukas is idolized for undermining the very notion of limited soundtrack editions"
That's this person's real gripe--that Fake was 'flayed' on another website, and he can't stand it that he can't witness another flaying, by different people, for the same 'crime'?
I look at the length of that long post I've extracted this sentence from and have to believe there's something else going on here.
Mr Walsh,
I'm sorry that you think that I have a hidden agenda here. I assure I have none. You imply that the rest of my "long post" gives credence to your suspicions of an ulterior motive on my part. Well, to obviate unnecessary speculation, let me reproduce that post in its entirety:
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Actually, I don't want anything. I just feel uneasy that Doug Fake - a man of consummate integrity - was flayed on his own website for daring to toy with the idea of pressing a second edition of Inchon, whereas Lukas is idolized for undermining the very notion of limited soundtrack editions. Exactly how many thousands of copies of Logan's Run were ultimately sold - all bearing exactly the same wording: "This pressing is limited to 3,000 copies"?? Fessing up later didn't make the vast overpressing any less professionally dubious.
Neither did the chorus of approval from FSM posters.
Many of you seem to be glorifying Lukas's instrumentality. Unfortunately, the ends do not always justify the means. At least, not in my book.
I have absolutey nothing against people like Bruce re-issuing repackaged soundtrack releases - even if the content of the new edition is - to all intents and purposes - identical to the first. Let Varese re-issue ALL of the Karate Kid CDs from the box set that I bought from them a while ago. If it makes them loads of money, good for them.
No sensible soundtrack collector believes for a moment that a given FSM or Kritzerland release will never be repressed again. That would be the height of naivete. When Lukas claimed in his publicity for the infamous Black Box that the CDs contained therein would never see the light of day again, I openly laughed, knowing full well that Lukas didn't believe a word of what he'd written. Yet some posters were outraged when re-issues begain trickling out.
The fact is that the uniqueness of any original release is not compromised in any way if the repressing (or reissue) is marked as such. Hence the large amounts of money certain original soundtrack releases still command, despite being reissued - sometimes many times.
However, the idea of churning out as many copies of a limited edition CD as a producer feels like (for whatever possible reason), is in the long term, untenable, and may indeed cause seismic ripples in the soundtrack industry as we know it. Intrada, which pioneered the limited soundtrack release over 25 years ago, has had to alter its business paradigm, following its abandonment of its previous limited edition principles. The regular OOP anouncements are proof of this change.
I don't buy soundtracks because they are limited. But many collectors do. It's a vital part of the cottage industry we support. I understand the financial imperative in limiting releases to 1000 or so. Bruce has written persuasively about this on numerous occasions. Press more and, in most cases you're left with hundreds or thousands of unsold - and potentially unsellable - CDs.
There have to be a set of principles that all soundtrack producers abide by. And the guiding principle should be that limited pressings MUST be limited to the number printed on the CD.
By all means press more, but the additional CDs MUST NOT be passed off as part of the original pressing. This undermines our faith in the producer - and it scares away the speculators - who, whether producers admit it or not, guarantee sufficient sales of many soundtrack releases. I have nothing against speculators. It's part of the fabric of the American way of life. They take the risk of acquiring dozens of copies of CDs that they may not be able to shift. As I said in an earlier post, I am not a speculator, so I have no vested interest in writing this.
It must truly piss off producers when OOP CDs sell for ten times the original price on the so-called secondary market. Ironically, this may be sufficient motivation for producers to repress such CDs. In fact, Lukas admitted that he re-issued Omega Man because ebay prices of the original release enraged him. I for one, am grateful because I was finally able to acquire a reasonably priced reissue for a friend of mine who was unable to afford the original.
Let me end here before I digress even further from the main topic. I sincerely hope that this post clarifies my position.
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Let me just add that I wrote all of this because I was asked by two posters to say what I really wanted.
I did exactly that.
Where on earth is the justification for your accusation that "He can't stand it that he can't witness another flaying"? Unlike others in this thread, I have used no inflammatory language - none of my posts in this thread can be seen as an incitement to violence; and I take particular umbrage at the suggestion that I demand a pound of Lukas's flesh.
Do you hear me screaming "J'acuse!" from the proverbial rafters?
The fact is that I am an undying supporter of Doug Fake. I have never come across a man of greater profesional integrity and honesty. In my dealings with him, he has displayed a level of refinement that is ill-suited to the ethical cut-and-thrust of the modern world.
In short, I hate it when Mr Fake is the victim of unwarranted and unconscionable online attacks.
Not surprising, I felt moved to compare the obliquy so unjustly heaped upon Mr Fake at the time of the Inchon "affair" and the postive reception given to Lukas for what I consider to be ethically dubious practices. I also wanted to express my feelings about re-issues and speculators to allay suspicions of vested interests.
If you still believe that I sitting here with my knitting, waiting for Lukas's guillotined head to drop into the basket, then there is nothing more I can do to disabuse you of that belief.
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I said:
I refuse to address your points? I've replied in detail!
Anyway ...
Do I think Lukas should be able to re-press CDs? Yes, as long as it's legal.
"Despite entering into an agreement..."
There is no 'agreement' here. It is a decision. and businesses can overturn decisions.
I have no problem with sellers realising they underestimated demand and deciding to go back and supply more.
I didn't think I was being vague about that.
Cheers
In reply, John Smith said:
Mr Woolston,
I was always under the impression that you never resorted to patronising, pompous or disingenuous remarks. I was clearly wrong.
My bad
You were not wrong. I fail to see where my reply was patronising, pompous or disengenuous. I fail to see where I have been like this in any of my replies to you.
Unless patronising, pompous or disengenuous equals anything that is not agreeing with you.
Cheers
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Some people have challenged those who applaud Lukas with: "So you support lying?"
Okay, I get it that some of the naysayers' objections is not that Ben-Hur got repressed, but that Lukas promised it wouldn't be.
I get that.
However, I do not call this a lie, because I believe it was sincerely true at the time it was uttered. That was Lukas' decision at that time.
Then he realised he was wrong and decided to reverse that decision.
Let me use a metaphor.
Imagine a politician decided to invade a country or something, believing it was the right thing to do. And let's say he promised to 'prosecute this war till we win'.
But then, down the line, he realises it was a bad decision and announces; "I was wrong. I am pulling our forces out. I'm sorry."
There's two ways you could react to that. You could say: "Bad politician! He lied when he promised us he would prosecure this war till we win! He should have stuck to his decision even though it was a bad one!" Or you could say: "Thank goodness a bad decision was reversed."
Lukas' initial decision to limit Ben-Hur at 2,000 proved to be a bad decision so he reversed it.
Reversing bad decisions is good leadership, not bad.
That's my take on it and I'm sorry if you don't like it.
Cheers
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By the way, ref: Doug Fake and the so-called "Inchon affair".
I disagreed with his decision to not re-press that title. (And no because I didn't get one: I did.)
However, I did not join in any "flaying" of him because I think that behaviour is poor. Doug Fake is one of several really wonderful servants of the soundtrack community and deserves nothing but respect. And I think the same is true of Lukas Kendall. And Bruce Kimmell. And James Fitzpatrick. And Luc Van De Ven. And William Stromberg. Etc, etc.
In short, I disagreed, probably appealed my point of view, but in the end respected that it was his decision and got over it.
After all, as passionate as I am about soundtracks, it is after all, CDs were talking about. Not life-and-death.
When he changed the label's policy with Explorers, I thought that was a great decision.
Cheers
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Lukas has the patience of a saint to allow people to come on to his website that he pays for and call him a liar. The same individuals saying the same thing over and over again. They've had their say several pages back but have to keep going.
My advice is that one or two people should now back off and not abuse the privilege of using these forums.
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Intrada re-released Predator. OH MY GOD I'm selling all my Intrada CDs and never buying Intrada CDs again.
FSM repress Ben-Hur. OH MY GOD I'm selling all my FSM CDs and never buying FSM CDs again
What a bullshit! What do these two have in common?! NOTHING!
Intrada re-released Predator with different mastering, different cover, in different line of releases (as an UNLIMITED EDITION!) and doesn't claim that it is still limited to those original 3000 copies while pressing more and more. Intrada has integrity and doesn't lie to its customers. FSM has been lying and deceiving its customers FOR YEARS and nobody seems to care!
Lokutus, we might as well give up, because everyone has their blinders on. They do not get it!
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