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 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 7:18 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)


I wold love to see this film on blu ray with roadshow elements and stereo.


Nick Redman has said he would like to do it on Blu-ray for Twilight Time but the film needs a lot of work. Let's hope it comes off.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 7:25 AM   
 By:   paul rossen   (Member)

doug Raynes. were your prints stereo?
When I worked at Pioneer laserdisc, I tried to track down stereo master tracks for this film, but no go. no one had them.

I wold love to see this film on blu ray with roadshow elements and stereo.
The film was never widescreen, but 1:85.

What alternate Intermission music was there for Spartacus. This is news to me.



On one of my Spartacus b**ts there is a track named alternate entr'acte. IMO it's quite good and better than the one in the film. That said this track is not on the Varese release. For whatever reason Varese did not include the bulk of the alternate tracks available elsewhere.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 1:20 PM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)


I wold love to see this film on blu ray with roadshow elements and stereo.
The film was never widescreen, but 1:85.

What alternate Intermission music was there for Spartacus. This is news to me.


Seems we may have to define our terms. !:85, almost two to one, would look like widescreen to me. Even so, I seem to recall a broader image than that.


Paul, in the early 1960s 1.85:1 was not considered widescreen because that had been the standard aspect ratio for many years. Most cinemas had stopped showing films in 1.33:1 by the mid '50s and I don't think Australia was that much behind the times - or maybe it was smile. In those days widescreen meant a CinemaScope size picture to most people at 2.35:1 and SODOM AND GOMORRAH was definitely not filmed with widescreen lenses. I think the advent of DVD confused terms.


Of course we're going back 50 years so my recollection is only of an oblong image. Today's "widescreen" TVs would be approximately the ratio you're describing so to me at the time that would have been widescreen, or at least wider screen. Aspect ratios like Ben-Hur, which in fact were almost never projected that way, just seem ridiculous to me. I still don't have a TV big enough it make it worthwhile watching my Blu Ray. I'm waiting for a 70" or above. smile

As for Australia being behind the times, in terms of film presentation we might have been ahead of the time, as films that seem to get chopped up in the US and elsewhere came here relatively intact. And certainly presentations were very good, with the best surround sound etc. I still have fond memoriers of the Moorish drums coming from directly behind us in El Cid. We thought we were going to get trampled. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 1:46 PM   
 By:   mstanwick856   (Member)


I wold love to see this film on blu ray with roadshow elements and stereo.
The film was never widescreen, but 1:85.

What alternate Intermission music was there for Spartacus. This is news to me.


Seems we may have to define our terms. !:85, almost two to one, would look like widescreen to me. Even so, I seem to recall a broader image than that.


Paul, in the early 1960s 1.85:1 was not considered widescreen because that had been the standard aspect ratio for many years. Most cinemas had stopped showing films in 1.33:1 by the mid '50s and I don't think Australia was that much behind the times - or maybe it was smile. In those days widescreen meant a CinemaScope size picture to most people at 2.35:1 and SODOM AND GOMORRAH was definitely not filmed with widescreen lenses. I think the advent of DVD confused terms.


Of course we're going back 50 years so my recollection is only of an oblong image. Today's "widescreen" TVs would be approximately the ratio you're describing so to me at the time that would have been widescreen, or at least wider screen. Aspect ratios like Ben-Hur, which in fact were almost never projected that way, just seem ridiculous to me. I still don't have a TV big enough it make it worthwhile watching my Blu Ray. I'm waiting for a 70" or above. smile

As for Australia being behind the times, in terms of film presentation we might have been ahead of the time, as films that seem to get chopped up in the US and elsewhere came here relatively intact. And certainly presentations were very good, with the best surround sound etc. I still have fond memoriers of the Moorish drums coming from directly behind us in El Cid. We thought we were going to get trampled. smile


Well, as a summer break from Uni, I flew over to Oz from NZ and was flatting in Sydney the whole time. I was a huge fan of Kubrick's 2001, and it was being shown there. I can certainly attest to the presentations and sound being top notch and the theatre was spectacular. I can't rember where it was now but the venue was superb. So good, I saw it 14 times!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 2:07 PM   
 By:   waxmanman35   (Member)

Sodom & Gomorrah may have been planned as a roadshow presentation, but it was not shown that way in NYC. In fact it opened in multiple locations for only a few weeks. There is a point in the film where the intermission should have been placed. But apprently the Overture Intermission and exit music were removed for USA distribution. Surprisinely it was not a wide screen film. It would be great to see this film, whatever its merits, as it was initially intended.

There was a two-page advance ad in the Sunday New York Times - and then nothing further was heard of the film until it opened sometime later in a wide release in local theaters, and not as a roadshow attraction. I believe this was one of the early "Showcase" distribution deals. I once had a 16mm print of the film, and I recall the battle of the dam special effects scenes were in a different aspect ratio from the rest of the film. As I recall the film was not anamorphic.

Getting back to Rozsa, is there much music that wasn't represented in the double CD release? The only missing cue that stands out in my memory is the continuation of the main title as the girl rides out of the palace.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 3:28 PM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

Well, as a summer break from Uni, I flew over to Oz from NZ and was flatting in Sydney the whole time. I was a huge fan of Kubrick's 2001, and it was being shown there. I can certainly attest to the presentations and sound being top notch and the theatre was spectacular. I can't rember where it was now but the venue was superb. So good, I saw it 14 times!

That was the Cinerama cinema in George St. For a time, a very short time, it only showed Cinerama films, and How the West was Won played there for many months. 2001 was not a true Cinerama film but they projected it in that ratio, with a very wide, curved screen. I went with my father and two younger siblings and one of them was almost ill with the revolving camera as Bowman re-enters the ship. Quite an experience. Quite a film. So good, in fact, that I heard some cretin in front of me remark at the end: "Well, at least we'll be home in time to watch Tarzan". At another showing I heard a woman say: "Damn! Every time I buy the tickets it's a bust!"

Oh well, even a masterpiece can't please everyone.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 3:41 PM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)


I returned to the City Theatre and requested a word with the projectionist. I explained everything to him, and he said he thought the intermezzo and epilogue should have been separate items, but that was the way he received the print. In reply to my request that he make a correction, he said, "I'm sorry, but I cannot do this because Head Office viewed this print first and made up my running times. If I alter it now the intermission will be shorter and somebody will want to know why I altered their running times!" So SODOM AND GOMORRAH had its complete city season in Sydney in that manner.


This paragraph has just sunk in and I have to say that, despite listening intently to the music throughout, I never noticed this oddity (and I think I saw the film three times). Maybe I was out getting choc tops or something (doubt it, they were too expensive!), but I can hardly believe I missed such an aggregious mix-up.

I wonder if it's too late to have those responsible flogged. I'm sure the nursing home wouldn't mind. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 6:02 PM   
 By:   scoreman42   (Member)

I'm probably going to get a lot of heat for saying this, but I find the sound mix on this re-recording a little murky. Not as dynamic as I thought it should be. I wish it was like the new re-recording of The Red House.

But still this is a great release.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 10:27 PM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

I'm probably going to get a lot of heat for saying this, but I find the sound mix on this re-recording a little murky. Not as dynamic as I thought it should be. I wish it was like the new re-recording of The Red House.

But still this is a great release.


I seem to be taking over this thread at the moment but what the heck...

I know what you mean. You have the same complaint I did about El Cid. The Tadlow recordings do occasionally veer into "thickness". I haven't yet received The Red House but I was struck by the difference you're referring to when I listened to the samples. It's not so much that one's right and the other wrong; you could get similar differing results from two different recording venues. In terms of labels, I would liken the Tadlow to Chandos and the Intrada to the old RCA "Orthodynamic" recordings of the 60s, which were bright and super clean. I do also notice that percussion (cymbals, drums etc) on the Tadlow recordings doesn't stand out as much as on some. I've noticed it all along, even on the best Tadlows, like Taras Bulba and Roman Empire.

You're also right that you're going to take heat for this--we both are. I did when I complained about El Cid, and you see that I haven't yet learned my lesson. I'm incorrigable.

And you're right again that this is still a great release. Looks like you're batting 3 for 3. smile



 
 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2012 - 1:04 AM   
 By:   JamesFitz   (Member)

I'm probably going to get a lot of heat for saying this, but I find the sound mix on this re-recording a little murky. Not as dynamic as I thought it should be. I wish it was like the new re-recording of The Red House.

But still this is a great release.


I seem to be taking over this thread at the moment but what the heck...

I know what you mean. You have the same complaint I did about El Cid. The Tadlow recordings do occasionally veer into "thickness". I haven't yet received The Red House but I was struck by the difference you're referring to when I listened to the samples. It's not so much that one's right and the other wrong; you could get similar differing results from two different recording venues. In terms of labels, I would liken the Tadlow to Chandos and the Intrada to the old RCA "Orthodynamic" recordings of the 60s, which were bright and super clean. I do also notice that percussion (cymbals, drums etc) on the Tadlow recordings doesn't stand out as much as on some. I've noticed it all along, even on the best Tadlows, like Taras Bulba and Roman Empire.

You're also right that you're going to take heat for this--we both are. I did when I complained about El Cid, and you see that I haven't yet learned my lesson. I'm incorrigable.

And you're right again that this is still a great release. Looks like you're batting 3 for 3. smile


I'm saying nothing this tme around....except.....

 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2012 - 1:23 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

Quo Vadis sounds excellent to me. A superb performance and recording.
I'm particularly happy with the choice of voice for Nero's singing. Characterful, artfully reflecting the spirit of the original scenes, without resorting to mimicry. Very well done. Before hearing it, I had feared this might end up being the ruination of the recording (like the ludicrous Russian-accented vocals that sabotaged the Morgan/Stromberg Sea Hawk), but the end result in Quo Vadis is very pleasing.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2012 - 1:50 AM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

I'm saying nothing this tme around....except.....

No Round 2, James? And we had so much fun last time. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2012 - 4:54 AM   
 By:   JamesFitz   (Member)

I'm saying nothing this tme around....except.....

No Round 2, James? And we had so much fun last time. smile


Not this time as already onto others wonderful things smile

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2012 - 7:54 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

A new SODOM would be grand but seems unlikely. But then who could have imagined a glorious new QUO VADIS even a few years ago? If our heroes can resurrect something as obscure as THE BATTLE OF NERETVA, then why not S&G? Anyway, I've said more about SODOM elsewhere, but I cannot suppress my enthusiasm for the immediate subject of this thread. So I hope it is not forbidden to repeat what I said first in Rozsa Forum yesterday:

Ave James! Ave Nic!

A triumph is surely in order for these worthies, with the procession to include Luc Van de Ven for backing the project, Leigh Phillips for his sensitive score reconstruction, and so many others, including all the splendid Prague musicians.

I had been present for the orchestral sessions back in May, which were described in some detail in PMS 67. But there was so much remaining to be done. Not just the normal editing and balancing: large swaths of vocal music (choral and solo) remained to be recorded, each piece requiring a different treatment or acoustic. It was by no means certain that all the elements of this remarkably diverse score could be integrated into a satisfactory whole. But they've done it. To my mind this is by far the most significant of the three Prague productions. The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes (Tadlow) was a valuable addition to the discography, but hardly the most important or original Rozsa score. El Cid (also Tadlow) was a splendid recreation of a true masterpiece. But we had much of that music already in a series of satisfactory recordings from other sources. The Tadlow version's prime merit was to fill in the dark spaces on the map. Quo Vadis (this one produced by James Fitzpatrick for Luc Van de Ven's Prometheus label), on the other hand, explores a new musical continent. There is so much music we never heard before. Not in the film, not on the OST album, not on the Decca, and not even in the FSM Rozsa Treasury, with its huge collection of all surviving QV materials. So, yes, to borrow a phrase from M-G-M's typically vulgar publicity machine: "This is the BIG one!" The best comparison might be Tribute Film Classics' She, which likewise excavated musical buried treasure that might otherwise have been lost forever.

Bravo to all concerned!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2012 - 1:39 PM   
 By:   Orvaliant   (Member)

This superb release brought me back to the FSM forum after 7 years. Outstanding performance. Couldn't believe my ears, this is for me the definitive version.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 10, 2012 - 2:12 AM   
 By:   JamesFitz   (Member)

This superb release brought me back to the FSM forum after 7 years. Outstanding performance. Couldn't believe my ears, this is for me the definitive version.

I am so glad that so many people like this release as certainly was a "labour of love" by all involved....

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 10, 2012 - 6:44 AM   
 By:   Aggelos   (Member)

James Fitzpatrick, by the way, can't find words to express my gratitude for this one
http://vgmdb.net/album/33412
You know, tracks 3 and 7. Simply stellar! You guys did a fantastic job over there at the Smecky Music Studios!
I guess when fans were playing MGS1 back in 1998, they couldn't have imagined that one day they would be able to listen the "enclosure" cue performed with vast orchestral sound.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 10, 2012 - 10:19 AM   
 By:   Traveling Matt   (Member)

Add me to the list... this release is just fantastic. Very happy. smile

 
 Posted:   Nov 10, 2012 - 11:43 AM   
 By:   Ag^Janus   (Member)

This superb release brought me back to the FSM forum after 7 years. Outstanding performance. Couldn't believe my ears, this is for me the definitive version.

I am so glad that so many people like this release as certainly was a "labour of love" by all involved....


...and maybe once again let us ponder what is going into the new recording pipeline? How about Victor Young's SHANE? Maybe coupled with a few of Victor's other score suites.

Lovely, shiney, polished, vibrant QUO VADIS for us all to savour ... I might even take a listen to the Rozsa Box originals again now.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 12, 2012 - 1:58 AM   
 By:   JamesFitz   (Member)

This superb release brought me back to the FSM forum after 7 years. Outstanding performance. Couldn't believe my ears, this is for me the definitive version.

I am so glad that so many people like this release as certainly was a "labour of love" by all involved....


...and maybe once again let us ponder what is going into the new recording pipeline? How about Victor Young's SHANE? Maybe coupled with a few of Victor's other score suites.

Lovely, shiney, polished, vibrant QUO VADIS for us all to savour ... I might even take a listen to the Rozsa Box originals again now.


I very much doubt that I would ever get round to Victor Young, even though I love lots of his music....but sad to say his msc just does not sell enough to justify the huge recording costs... more Rozsa however seems a better bet

 
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