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 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 2:25 PM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

I am not making a direct comparison to this Zimmer argument since I am not that big a Zimmer fan (but I have enjoyed some of his music so that probably qualifies me as being a part of the bane of human civilization") but I see ample evidence of that old film music fart mentality still flourishing.

All of this would matter if there was a PROGRESS of some kind in the music headlined by Hans Zimmer, but there isn't. I laugh when I hear that people who adore this think they're listening to "modern" music. It's a joke. RCP is (mostly, not exclusively) producing music that is regressive in the extreme, which falls back on simplistic patterns, conventional & forgettable progressions, thinly dressed up with a few electronic effects to make it sound contemporary. Max Steiner was more progressive than Hans Zimmer.


Progress is relative. On the concert stage progressive has meant modern writing including atonal works. Being a fan of Morricone I have followed this progress up to a point. But my personal standard is based on the Goldsmith model of composer. The type who gets bored doing the same thing over and over. So early Zimmer was very creative jumping around from heavy African influence (A WORLD APART) to folksy (DRIVING MISS DAISY) to traditional heroicism (BACKDRAFT). But as soon as I heard the same "power anthem" from THE ROCK in PIRATES and other places I knew formula had set in. Which doesn't mean he can't be a little inspired now and then from a project like RANGO or SHERLOCK HOLMES. It is simply he and his troops muddy the water so badly I cannot muster any arguments to defend them against the haters.

But I hate the idea that his concept of film music production is something new and is the bane of Hollywood. The studios always have gone for and loved anonymous composer work. Early film music credits were music by the head of the music department. If a composer was so good he was started to be given the whole score to write and given screen credit the studios frowned. They had to pay him more. If they were smart they made the best head of their film music department (Alfred Newman, Max Steiner) so they were under contract and were not demanding too much money. But the majority of the music was cranked out like today and reused, but also libraried. There are those who say they were better trained but ask Rozsa and you have a differing opinion. Either way they were given no time to get this music done so most is extremely underwritten. Then, like today, the majority of it was nothing to write home about. But we always gravitate to the talented few who rise to the top. These days I have an affection for Desplat and Giacchino, and all those Spanish composers popping up headed by Banos. And believe it or not the favorite of the Zimmer crowd John Powell.
The best are always brought in from elsewhere. Korngold got trapped here from Austria, Newman from theater, Waxman from France, Herrmann from radio, Rozsa from London, etc. Today I find some unusual scores over at Moviescore media that are surprisingly from independent cinema, foreign countries and other media. You just have to know where to look.

 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 3:16 PM   
 By:   Loren   (Member)

All of this would matter if there was a PROGRESS of some kind in the music headlined by Hans Zimmer, but there isn't. I laugh when I hear that people who adore this think they're listening to "modern" music. It's a joke. RCP is (mostly, not exclusively) producing music that is regressive in the extreme, which falls back on simplistic patterns, conventional & forgettable progressions, thinly dressed up with a few electronic effects to make it sound contemporary. Max Steiner was more progressive than Hans Zimmer.


This make me think
1) you don't know Zimmer's articulate and eclectic production at all
2) you don't know much about electronic music
3) you don't know much about film music history
4) you don't know much about Max Steiner either (progressive??????)

Still unexplicable (but we couldn't care less) this crusade of yours vs. Zimmer's music

 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 3:37 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

Progress is relative. On the concert stage progressive has meant modern writing including atonal works. Being a fan of Morricone I have followed this progress up to a point. But my personal standard is based on the Goldsmith model of composer. The type who gets bored doing the same thing over and over. So early Zimmer was very creative jumping around from heavy African influence (A WORLD APART) to folksy (DRIVING MISS DAISY) to traditional heroicism (BACKDRAFT). But as soon as I heard the same "power anthem" from THE ROCK in PIRATES and other places I knew formula had set in. Which doesn't mean he can't be a little inspired now and then from a project like RANGO or SHERLOCK HOLMES. It is simply he and his troops muddy the water so badly I cannot muster any arguments to defend them against the haters.

It is kind of embarassing that someone whose nick name is "Morricone" call "Rango" and "Sherlock Holmes" inspired...

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 4:32 PM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

Progress is relative. On the concert stage progressive has meant modern writing including atonal works. Being a fan of Morricone I have followed this progress up to a point. But my personal standard is based on the Goldsmith model of composer. The type who gets bored doing the same thing over and over. So early Zimmer was very creative jumping around from heavy African influence (A WORLD APART) to folksy (DRIVING MISS DAISY) to traditional heroicism (BACKDRAFT). But as soon as I heard the same "power anthem" from THE ROCK in PIRATES and other places I knew formula had set in. Which doesn't mean he can't be a little inspired now and then from a project like RANGO or SHERLOCK HOLMES. It is simply he and his troops muddy the water so badly I cannot muster any arguments to defend them against the haters.

It is kind of embarassing that someone whose nick name is "Morricone" call "Rango" and "Sherlock Holmes" inspired...


Ah well, life is full of surprises. I am surprised someone named Yor can be embarrassed.

 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 5:10 PM   
 By:   robertmro   (Member)

Wow! Is this pissing match is still going on?
This is all about the state of music in general. It (music) has to evolve but we old timers don't like where it's going.
Zimmer just represents everything we don't like or understand.

 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 6:21 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

Ah well, life is full of surprises. I am surprised someone named Yor can be embarrassed.

No, really.

Someone who claims to like Morricone cannot be serious to call such lame scores "inspired" since Zimmer stole most of its "inspirantion" from "Secret of the Sahara" (as in "Gladiator") and "Two Mules for Sister Sarah".

At least on the sequel of "Sherlock Holmes" he included the original Morricone track on the album.

Really embarrassing...

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 6:55 PM   
 By:   Timmer   (Member)

Who would YOR choose between Hans Zimmer and Danny Elfman?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 6:55 PM   
 By:   Timmer   (Member)

Who would YOR choose between Hans Zimmer and Danny Elfman?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 6:56 PM   
 By:   Timmer   (Member)

Damn! Question so good I posted it twice big grin

 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 7:03 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

Who would YOR choose between Hans Zimmer and Danny Elfman?

Oingoboingo mediocre composer, but his scores do not ruin the movies like most of Hams' wall-of-noises.

And Oingoboingo nice and humble people.

So, yes, YOR would choose Oingoboingo in a million years.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 7:05 PM   
 By:   facehugger   (Member)


Excuse me but I was a young film music fan when I was derided for liking these younger newcomers mentioned above that added jazz and rock and other contaminations to the symphonic traditions. I was shown LPs of Steiner's BAND OF ANGELS and Herrmann's VERTIGO and instructed this is what I should be listening to and the real golden Age was way in the past. I slowly learned to appreciate these great early composers but no thanks to these old film music farts whose narrowmindedness couldn't or wouldn't see beyond what they were used to.ight.


And people walked out of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring debut halfway. So Zimmer is comparable to Stravinsky then?

The key issue here is COMPLEXITY. Even the "oldfarts" you mentioned couldn't deny that Vertigo and Aliens and Planet of the Apes were highly complex works, unlike Zimmer's works, which are just too simple too naive.

Please don't equal "experiemental and new and COMPLEX that the public initially reject" to "new and SIMPLE and appealing to the most primitive pleasure center of the brain".

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 7:13 PM   
 By:   facehugger   (Member)


Progress is relative.


Me caveman.

Me mourn every day that CAVE PAINTINGS are now replaced by Picasso, animal-bone percussion replaced by Beethoven, eating raw meat replaced by French cuisine.

Sometimes people laugh at me but then I tell them "progress relative!"

But I do wonder, does human race EVOLVE or degenerate?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 7:19 PM   
 By:   facehugger   (Member)



Still unexplicable (but we couldn't care less) this crusade of yours vs. Zimmer's music


At least those "crusaders" didn't demand you be banned, unlike some Zimmer fanatics did and would like to do to YOR and me.

Says something about tolerance and who the real "crusaders" and lynch mobs are, eh?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 7:30 PM   
 By:   facehugger   (Member)


That's because Horner, unlike Zimmer, isn't an illiterate. He's just a thief. At least he has his music history down pat, PLUS be he required to write an entirely original score on his own, and orchestrate it, Horner would be able to do it! He's just too lazy. 15 years from now he might wanna echo Elmer Bernstein: "I'm too old and too rich to give a shit". Zimmer, by comparison, is an industrious honey bee. Unfortunately he has about the same knowledge of music history as said honey bee.


Ironic that one of the two has made the best selling soundtrack ever since dinasours ruled the earth, while the other apparently is the most popular film composer on the planet according to Facebook.

What a high class art this "film music business" is.

 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 7:54 PM   
 By:   Matt B   (Member)

Jesus, are you still prattling on?

 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 8:30 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

Me caveman.

Me mourn every day that CAVE PAINTINGS are now replaced by Picasso, animal-bone percussion replaced by Beethoven, eating raw meat replaced by French cuisine.

Sometimes people laugh at me but then I tell them "progress relative!"


 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 8:55 PM   
 By:   facehugger   (Member)

Jesus, are you still prattling on?

"Jesus, are you still prattling on?"

Is that echo or are you just refering to yourself, guy who works in the equivalent of plumber business?

Or you can just admit it: you simply lacks good logic and have nothing of substance to say, in order to win any intelligent discussion (or "piss contest", as some of your bad taste buddies would call it).

Alternatively, you can just block me and call it a day, instead of being "insulted" by superior reasoning?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2013 - 9:04 PM   
 By:   facehugger   (Member)

Me caveman.

Me mourn every day that CAVE PAINTINGS are now replaced by Picasso, animal-bone percussion replaced by Beethoven, eating raw meat replaced by French cuisine.

Sometimes people laugh at me but then I tell them "progress relative!"




Can't see. Fixed for ya.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2764/4384894064_eb4ab722d9.jpg

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 14, 2013 - 4:27 AM   
 By:   stay-puft   (Member)


unlike Zimmer's works, which are just too simple too naive.


coming from the same person who gushes over Pacific Rim(score+movie)

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 14, 2013 - 6:47 AM   
 By:   facehugger   (Member)


unlike Zimmer's works, which are just too simple too naive.


coming from the same person who gushes over Pacific Rim(score+movie)


If you actually read some of my postings, many sophisticated reasoning behind "liking" Zimmer has been discussed by me and others (who're not mindless Zimmer bashers as some lunatics would believe).

I won't even bother to repeat them to you anymore (I doubt whether you'd actually read them or just be selectively blind).

Bye!

 
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