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 Posted:   May 13, 2013 - 11:53 AM   
 By:   Jeff Bond   (Member)

If I were to try to pin down the melody Horner uses in that cue it would be "Monster Illusion" from "The Cage," but I've never really been sure what he was talking about there...

 
 Posted:   May 14, 2013 - 1:21 AM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

I think Horner was making it up, just to have something he thought was funny to say.

 
 
 Posted:   May 14, 2013 - 1:22 AM   
 By:   Ford A. Thaxton   (Member)

If I were to try to pin down the melody Horner uses in that cue it would be "Monster Illusion" from "The Cage," but I've never really been sure what he was talking about there...

That's what I always thought as well.

Ford A. Thaxton

 
 
 Posted:   May 14, 2013 - 5:26 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Spock was crazy for turning down Jill Ireland!

naw, that's the whole point of Spock's character being an unemotional alien. You're thinking of the "Spock" in the Abrams movies - he would have settled down with her even without the spoors mucking with him.

 
 Posted:   May 14, 2013 - 9:31 PM   
 By:   Jörn   (Member)

I would like to know, how many of these boxes were sold by now?

Anyone has an idea?

 
 Posted:   May 14, 2013 - 9:32 PM   
 By:   Jörn   (Member)

Sorry, double post

 
 Posted:   May 14, 2013 - 9:57 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

If I were to try to pin down the melody Horner uses in that cue it would be "Monster Illusion" from "The Cage," but I've never really been sure what he was talking about there...

That was my hunch, also, just going by the sound of what he was referring to there. But, gifted Star Trek composer as he is, Horner is NOT an authority on Star Trek music, as evidenced by his other quote from the same article:

"Spock never had a theme before, and I wanted to give him a theme to tie the whole of 'Genesis and 'Spock' by the end of the film, so that it would all mean something."

Just plain silly, right? Giving Horner the benefit of the doubt, we can imagine he'd heard the prior themes that had been written for Spock, and simply didn't think he could use any of them for the dramatic purpose he had in mind, and THAT'S what he MEANT to say. I actually am very fond of Horner's Spock theme and his resulting "tie-Genesis to Spock" cue near the end of the film is one of the most moving pieces ever composed for Star Trek, a really brilliantly tear-jerking cue.

I think that Horner's feelings about Star Trek music have always been much better expressed in his music itself than in any of his spoken words on the subject. Among all the Star Trek movie composers so far, I think he remains the master, for instance, at weaving in the pre-existing Alexander Courage material (both fanfare and theme) into new dramatic underscoring (although I also love what Rosenman did in his "Home Again: End Credits" cue in IV).

 
 
 Posted:   May 15, 2013 - 11:31 AM   
 By:   kc-technerd   (Member)

If I were to try to pin down the melody Horner uses in that cue it would be "Monster Illusion" from "The Cage," but I've never really been sure what he was talking about there...

The last 5 notes just before "Kirk in Space Shuttle" does also sounds to me like it could be extracted from a theme in "The Cage" that is prominent in "Monster Illusion" but perhaps even more so and played more as a "love theme" in "Max's Factor" starting at :35. If I'm not mistaken there are variations of this theme throughout "The Cage".

 
 Posted:   May 16, 2013 - 11:03 AM   
 By:   Other Tallguy   (Member)

"Spock never had a theme before, and I wanted to give him a theme to tie the whole of 'Genesis and 'Spock' by the end of the film, so that it would all mean something."

Just plain silly, right? Giving Horner the benefit of the doubt, we can imagine he'd heard the prior themes that had been written for Spock, and simply didn't think he could use any of them for the dramatic purpose he had in mind, and THAT'S what he MEANT to say.


I think he didn't listen that far into the series.

I was chuckling while I was on my road trip as I realized HOW MANY themes have been written for Spock. Now with Bond's liner notes for IV and all that is in the TOS Box I realize that there are themes for Spock I never knew were themes for Spock.

My favorites are:
Fried - It never got more perfect than this. This summed up a kind of Spock we never saw after the series.
Giacchino - I like that Giacchino got the sadder side of Spock as well as his Starfleet side.
Horner = These are separated by a matter of degrees - this theme is so great and so versatile. It pretty much carries STIII of couse.
Goldsmith - It shows how inspiring this character is to composers that Goldsmith can come in FOURTH. But Total Logic is one of my favorite Trek cues, period.

 
 
 Posted:   May 16, 2013 - 1:21 PM   
 By:   Joe 1956   (Member)

....Among all the Star Trek movie composers so far, I think he remains the master, for instance, at weaving in the pre-existing Alexander Courage material (both fanfare and theme) into new dramatic underscoring....

For the TV shows, it would perhaps have to be Fred Steiner. The "bookends" to Charlie X, (that piano), can't be matched.

 
 Posted:   May 16, 2013 - 3:49 PM   
 By:   Other Tallguy   (Member)

Among all the Star Trek movie composers so far, I think he remains the master, for instance, at weaving in the pre-existing Alexander Courage material (both fanfare and theme) into new dramatic underscoring (although I also love what Rosenman did in his "Home Again: End Credits" cue in IV).

Horner is the only one who really made it part of the score. Everyone else has been a big wink to the audience: "Hey, we're playing the STAR TREK theme!" Home Again is gorgeous, don't get me wrong. But Horner seemed to know how the theme worked. By the time we get to III there were times when I had to back up and check if I was listening to Horner or Courage, he wove the theme in that seamlessly. A couple of moments in Stealing the Enterprise in particular.

Maybe it's just because Goldsmith didn't open with it in TMP, but boy that ghostly haunting trumpet belting out the fanfare at the beginning of TWOK was never topped. It grabbed you by a sensitive body part and ran away with you.

I have to say listening to Into Darkness this morning I was disappointed at how perfunctory it feels when Giacchino plays the TOS themes. I always compare it to composers using the James Bond theme (including Barry). Some use it very organically. Others feel like "Ok, here's your damn theme. Can I get back to my score now?" Especially after all the talk Giacchino had last go round about "We haven't EARNED the theme yet". And yet he doesn't use it any differently than he did in the first one.

But back to TOS, Steiner was great at using Courage's OTHER themes. Like his Captain's theme. Pretty much all of the composers were pretty good at using the fanfare. I wish other shows would take that style of score. Here's the theme - USE it! No one topped Kaplan's fanfare, but *Steiner* EDIT: Fried got pretty close with Friday's Child. Ok, Duning was no slouch either.

The composers all gave the Enterprise a different character with their takes on the fanfare. Explorer, warship, beautiful lady (and we love her). All different.

 
 Posted:   May 16, 2013 - 5:23 PM   
 By:   Jeff Bond   (Member)

Fried did Friday's Child. smile

 
 Posted:   May 16, 2013 - 7:10 PM   
 By:   ST-321   (Member)

Five months into the release and I am still enjoying it almost beyond measure. I didn't own any of the TOS musics prior to the release and am so very glad I got it.

Steiner's Elaan of Troyius is perhaps my current favorite, but there is so much great stuff in this release.

 
 Posted:   May 16, 2013 - 8:06 PM   
 By:   Other Tallguy   (Member)

Fried did Friday's Child. smile

First reaction: Of course Fried did. What idiot said he didn't?

Second reaction: Oh, that idiot. (I'll see if I can fix it.)

BTW, I listened to twelve of the fifteen CDs on my trip. Just. Couldn't. Get... THROUGH.... Season threeeeeeeeee........

But I liked Spock's Brain way better this time through. And I finally like Who Mourns for Adonais as much as everyone else now.

 
 Posted:   May 17, 2013 - 8:38 AM   
 By:   chriss   (Member)

but perhaps even more so and played more as a "love theme" in "Max's Factor" starting at :35. If I'm not mistaken there are variations of this theme throughout "The Cage".

Interesting find! I've never noticed that before.

 
 
 Posted:   May 18, 2013 - 5:46 AM   
 By:   emusician   (Member)

How is this set selling? In other words, will there be copies still available around Christmas time? (I really don’t want to read thru 2,500 posts to see if this has already been asked or discussed and I didn't want to start a new thread)

 
 Posted:   May 18, 2013 - 6:36 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

How is this set selling? In other words, will there be copies still available around Christmas time? (I really don’t want to read thru 2,500 posts to see if this has already been asked or discussed and I didn't want to start a new thread)

Hush is the word. But some have estimated LLL sold around 4000. Considering the price I expect it will take several years to sell all 6000 unites. In fact the last 1000 may linger on for much longer. (Case in point, Independence Day) Note their recent email pushing the Star Trek line hoping to revive interest with the Into Darkness craze. That tells me sales have slowed down considerably, and their trying to move remaining stock. That's my totally uninformed guess on the matter. wink

 
 Posted:   May 19, 2013 - 8:20 AM   
 By:   bdm   (Member)

I would agree with Mr. S above - the set sold well upon release, as all us eager folks bought. There are obviously some still available, and La La would certainly put out a low quantity notice as is their usual practice. When that comes out, you had better jump on it though.

 
 
 Posted:   May 19, 2013 - 10:43 AM   
 By:   rickO   (Member)

Some day down the road it would be awesome for individual releases to come out for people who couldn't quite afford this set. Or downloads of individual scores or tracks for discerning fans?

-Rick O.

 
 Posted:   May 19, 2013 - 5:59 PM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

Some day down the road it would be awesome for individual releases to come out for people who couldn't quite afford this set. Or downloads of individual scores or tracks for discerning fans?

-Rick O.


Surely that will happen some time in the future, long after the box set has sold out. This music is an asset that will still be good for modest, niche revenues as a download.

At least you'd think so, depending on how much trouble the studio considers it to create the download version. It seems that all pop music but only some film music has made the leap to iTunes.

 
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