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Well I would prefer a Giacchino Star Wars to a Zimmer one- not that I dislike Zimmer any more. I think Mike G will do it justice though I would be curious to hear what John Powell would do with it if he ever had the chance.
Apart from Powell, in RCP related people, I would only have seen Henry Jackman doing it. He did quote some funny Williams moments in Monsters VS Aliens or Gulliver's Travels (not OSTs due to "legal" issues)...
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Posted: |
Jan 25, 2013 - 10:38 AM
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By: |
vwing
(Member)
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I think this is great for both Star Wars and Giacchino.
It's great for Star Wars because Giacchino probably knows the themes backwards and forwards and is one of the few composers out there right now truly adept at adapting themes (especially through interesting instrumentation) and making them his own. In addition, while his orchestral palette is a bit different from his Incredibles-era sound (where I think he was at his Williams-est in a good way, 100 Mile Dash being one of the best action cues of the decade in my opinion), I think he can still do some great orchestral action, especially if he's building off that existing universe.
It's great for Giacchino because, as a huge fan, I think he's grown a bit stale recently, best best score being MI:4. Super 8 was a bit of a let down in that the themes were just so simple (a complaint many have had about Giacchino), and I think, perhaps because he's writing with keyboard more now, his orchestrations have gotten a little blockier, and his harmonies have gotten a bit simpler.
Giacchino is a great talent, but it does seem like sometimes he's too reserved, especially in live action productions. In addition, Brad Bird seems to bring out the best in him, while Abrams (or Abrams and Reeves) make him settle more into the background of the picture. Even with Abrams directing, Giacchino's music will clearly be foreground in the film, and I think it's an opportunity for him to absolutely go off, pull out all the stops, and fulfill all the potential that we first saw in him when listening to Medal of Honor.
I don't know how the movie will be, but I think for Giacchino, it'll be a shot in the arm, and he'll give us an A+ effort, and a wonderful, new but old Star Wars score.
As for why Williams shouldn't score it, I don't think anyone would be disappointed if he did, but I do think it's time to pass the mantle on to someone else. There were many points of the prequels that were a bit uninspired (possibly due to the film quality itself), and none of the films, save perhaps Phantom Menace, had the thematic integrity of any of the films from the OT. Indeed, Williams has backed away from that thematic writing we love so much in Star Wars, as evident in Revenge of the Sith, a very good score whose best moments were the non-action, non-motivic moments (Anakin's Betrayal being a prime example). Even his new big theme in that one seemed uninspired, even when compared to Duel of the Fates, and especially when compared to the themes of the OT. I found myself thinking many times, man, what would we have gotten if Joel McNeely had scored this?
I think it'll be nice to get a change, and Giacchino's whole career seems to have led up to something like this, so why not him?
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I don't think main stream audiences know jack about composers and Zimmer is just as much a "who the hell?" as Giacchino.
I think due to the success of Lost and Pixar kids and adults alike know more about Giacchino then you are willing to give them credit for. Is he as popular as Williams? Of course not but Giacchino continues to attend and conduct his music at sold out events all over the world.
-Erik-
Eh, people who go to these sorts of things either go because they pay attention to the music (us) or because of the branding ("mommy, take me to the concert about my favorite Disney movie!"). The average person pays almost no attention the music in a film or TV series and even less to the name of the composer. Popular TV shows or not, average folks don't care for music without words. People might whistle the theme to the X-Files, but they can't tell you who composed it. Lost had no real theme, so most people have no memory of the music. Our lot has not changed. With Star Wars, if the theme is there, that's as far as their concern goes for the music. Bad enough most people think John Williams composed all movie music for the past 40 years. Danny Elfman was an exception because he came from pop music, but those connections to the audience seem to be few.
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Posted: |
Jan 25, 2013 - 11:31 AM
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By: |
Deadwalker
(Member)
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I think this is great for both Star Wars and Giacchino.
It's great for Star Wars because Giacchino probably knows the themes backwards and forwards and is one of the few composers out there right now truly adept at adapting themes (especially through interesting instrumentation) and making them his own. In addition, while his orchestral palette is a bit different from his Incredibles-era sound (where I think he was at his Williams-est in a good way, 100 Mile Dash being one of the best action cues of the decade in my opinion), I think he can still do some great orchestral action, especially if he's building off that existing universe.
It's great for Giacchino because, as a huge fan, I think he's grown a bit stale recently, best best score being MI:4. Super 8 was a bit of a let down in that the themes were just so simple (a complaint many have had about Giacchino), and I think, perhaps because he's writing with keyboard more now, his orchestrations have gotten a little blockier, and his harmonies have gotten a bit simpler.
Giacchino is a great talent, but it does seem like sometimes he's too reserved, especially in live action productions. In addition, Brad Bird seems to bring out the best in him, while Abrams (or Abrams and Reeves) make him settle more into the background of the picture. Even with Abrams directing, Giacchino's music will clearly be foreground in the film, and I think it's an opportunity for him to absolutely go off, pull out all the stops, and fulfill all the potential that we first saw in him when listening to Medal of Honor.
I don't know how the movie will be, but I think for Giacchino, it'll be a shot in the arm, and he'll give us an A+ effort, and a wonderful, new but old Star Wars score.
As for why Williams shouldn't score it, I don't think anyone would be disappointed if he did, but I do think it's time to pass the mantle on to someone else. There were many points of the prequels that were a bit uninspired (possibly due to the film quality itself), and none of the films, save perhaps Phantom Menace, had the thematic integrity of any of the films from the OT. Indeed, Williams has backed away from that thematic writing we love so much in Star Wars, as evident in Revenge of the Sith, a very good score whose best moments were the non-action, non-motivic moments (Anakin's Betrayal being a prime example). Even his new big theme in that one seemed uninspired, even when compared to Duel of the Fates, and especially when compared to the themes of the OT. I found myself thinking many times, man, what would we have gotten if Joel McNeely had scored this?
I think it'll be nice to get a change, and Giacchino's whole career seems to have led up to something like this, so why not him?
Super 8 is 100 times better than is work on MI4. MI4 is just bland and generic
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Was Williams, even asked?
Probably not. Sad, but nothing surprises me.
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I'm hoping that Giacchino will do what he did for The Incredibles: i.e. he was more Barry than Barry. Williams moved past Star Wars style scoring a long time ago. I'm hoping Giacchino will pick that back up. OTOH, as much as I love John Carter, Up, and so on, I'm not sure Giacchino can write themes that are as strong as Beyond the Stars, or Duel of the Fates.
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well, since he took over the 007 franchise
it should be Thom Newman
for SW
LOL!!!!!
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well, since he took over the 007 franchise
it should be Thom Newman
for SW
LOL!!!!!
That'd be... quite a thing to see.
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I'm hoping that Giacchino will do what he did for The Incredibles: i.e. he was more Barry than Barry.
---------------------
Totally,absolutely disagree. Giacchino did an acceptable job at producing Barry pastiche but In my opinion it was a long way short of the quality of the real thing.
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Posted: |
Jan 25, 2013 - 8:14 PM
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By: |
Adam S
(Member)
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I think he writes effective themes that fit the movie but without rising to the level of being truly iconic. But, then again, iconic themes are deceptively difficult to come by. When somebody pulls it off it looks easy but there's a reason it rarely happens. For me Giacchino's strength is just his overall dramatic sensibility. He's versatile, talented and always pays attention to the needs of the film. He's just a top-notch craftsman with musical chops to write some very entertaining stuff though my interest seems to have waned somewhat.
Following Williams would be tough act to follow though. When the force theme is called for for the 3492nd time, will Giacchino be able to blend it in seamlessly like Williams did with countless arrangements, each version different from any other and completely in context of the needs of the film? Little things like that where the accumalative effect is pretty amazing when one thinks about what Williams did for those films. I won't be upset if Williams doesn't do it but I kind of feel like they owe him the opportunity which for all I know he'd turn down anyway. He's been, more than anybody, the "soul" of the movies up to this point. I'd like to think there's still a very outside chance of this happening, particularly if Giacchino, the film music fan, stepped aside out of deference. Probably won't happen but just a thought.
- Adam
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Posted: |
Jan 26, 2013 - 1:41 AM
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By: |
r.h.t
(Member)
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I don't think main stream audiences know jack about composers and Zimmer is just as much a "who the hell?" as Giacchino.
Seems like the effect you'd expect from the current system of franchise cinema. Persons don't matter much, except maybe the actors on the screen. Perhaps it has also to do with the fact that title credits are pretty much dead. But then it may be that great composers who compose great things aren't really needed by modern franchise cinema. I remember well a quite honest interview with German composer Harald Kloser where he talks about assembly line music [1]:
"Yes, that's absolutely right. What happens there is total inbreeding. If one makes film music today then the film editor underlays the film with a so-called 'temp score', temporary music from another similar film ..."
On the temp score for "The Day After Tomorrow":
"The temp score consisted of this and that, for example there was Hans Zimmer's music from 'Thin Red Line'. But I was lucky, as I had composed some music before [The Day After Tomorrow] which ended up in the temp score. And when the producer or Roland [Emmerich] said to me: 'Make it like in the temp score', they often meant a piece which I myself had composed. But often enough the temp score is the enemy of the composer ..."
On the temp score being the reason for assembly line music:
"Yes, and I can give you an example: I recently met a composer in Hollywood who's well-known, and I introduced myself: 'Hello, I know you very well, [though] you don't know me, I'm Harald Kloser', and he replied: 'Oh my God, I know you well, I'm just scoring a film where the temp score is full of your -13th Floor soundtrack. Oh, please don't sue me'. And I had to tell him: 'You won't believe it, when I did -13th Floor-, my temp score was full of your score from -Perfect Murder- and I basically imitated all that'. That's what I mean by inbreeding. James Newton Howard imitates this thing of mine which came into existence because I imitated this thing of his. I think you can call that 'assembly line'. And, honestly, if you write music for an action scene and it's already underlaid with music with tempo 140, because it's been cut this way -- which film composer will say: 'I don't use tempo 140, but tempo 126'. Then he'll be off at every cut. And if at that tempo there are five great climaxes in the temp score, who'll say: 'No, I don't set a climax at that point, I set it elsewhere'. It's fastest if you say: 'I make it tempo 140, here and there and there I set the climaxes, bam, bam, bam ...' -- sure, that's assembly line."
On artistic freedom:
"No, not with this music. I mean, who goes home in the evening and listens to music from an action scene? These would be people you are afraid of, [people] who return home after work and listen to action scenes (laughs). No, artistic freedom in film music in my opinion is there where there's need for emotional things, even if that only means a few keystrokes on the piano. And luckily, in the ideal case, there are one or two titles on a soundtrack where this is possible."
On what people want to listen to:
"I don't know. At best I know what I listen to. Sure, there's no need to overrate film music. It pays my rent, I don't have to argue with singers or texters."
[1] http://planet-interview.de/harald-kloser-21052004.html (German, any translation mistakes are mine.)
---
So, this was a bit off-topic. As for Star Wars, give it to Zimmer. I don't care. Disney's Star Wars will be, I guess, more in line with their Pirates of the Caribbean franchise than anything else. And that's okay. I have the original versions of the original trilogy, I have the souped-up Blu-rays of the original trilogy, I have Williams' score of the original trilogy. Nobody can take it from me. So do with Star Wars whatever you want, Disney. At best, I can be pleasantly surprised.
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Posted: |
Jan 26, 2013 - 5:58 AM
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By: |
EvilDead
(Member)
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If a filmscore fan went to a 'Giacchino Conducts Giacchino' live concert, would they be able to recognize one number from the other without having to look at the program?
Well, people who go to a Giacchino concert are most likely fans of his music, so yes, they would be able to tell them apart  Personally I think Michael Giacchino is good at writing themes, and I think he's produced very memorable stuff like Lost, Star Trek, John Carter, Up, Ratatoille, The Incredibles and Medal of Honor. And each of these with it's own unique sound. Are they on the level of John Williams? No, but who's is?
One thing I think he has in common with Williams is, that he seems to give each scene he's scoring it's own musical identity. For instance his two Mission Impossible scores are great fun, because they have so many great (and different sounding) cues. Many other composers would write a couple of themes, and just use all kinds of variations of them, but not Giacchino. So in that sense I think he would fit Star Wars fine.
BUT... I still hope they ask Williams, and that he's interested... It just wouldn't be the same without him.
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