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I was told by the people around Williams..That John Williams wrote new rendition and used LA Local Talent.
I think I saw where Kathy Kennedy said John Williams wrote the music to fit the Sneak Previews.
What was Felix Erskine's contribution?
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Posted: |
Apr 18, 2015 - 1:46 AM
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By: |
Mike West
(Member)
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As far as I know Erskine did some minor synths ambiences which are subtly in there.
Not more. That is probably also why the main title has that strong bass treatment.
When you listen to it, you can hear that everything is actually taken from the original scores.
Except for three snippets:
That reverbery high piano note, which likely is inserted in the post-recording process, just to have a bridge to the next thematic thing.
Those few chords over the shots of Vader's helmet and Luke touching R2, which remind me of the Indiana Jones 4 trailer.
Those few ascending bars which culminate in the end of yoda and the force, which also sound like edited in there in post-recording.
The very beginning is taken from a piece in Star Wars in Concert. I forgot the title for
it there, I guess it might be on the DVD which was as a bonus in the Episode III soundtrack,
because Star Wars In Concert was assembled similarly.
So, it is likely that Williams was more or less suggesting which parts are to be included in the trailer, maybe he asked someone to look for proper bits in the old scores and he decided. Maybe he supervised the assembly of pieces, and very likely he also recorded them. But do you think they recorded that locked trailer back then when the first one was recorded? If, it was likely a raw cut and edited on afterwards until they released it. Do you really think Williams was so much involved in those editing jobs? For a trailer?
People are overestimating Williams involvement very much I think, the discussion over at jwfan is just funny to read, and the title "featuring new Williams music" is simply not adaquate,
there is like 15 seconds NEW music in there, and nobody knows if those are by Williams. If they are, they are not thematic, just interchangeable bridges between material (except for the ascending thing)
The thematic material is newly recorded, but taken from the old soundtracks. Which is by definition not a new composition, or a new rendition. And it is very unlikely that they recorded that trailer music the way it appears from beginning to end in sync with the trailer. Those
snippets which are new are very likely inserted editorially.
We'll probably never know.
When Williams writes music for a trailer, you can listen how this sounds in Hook or in the first Star Wars trailer, the first part.
That is new John Williams music, a new composition.
But this is hardly even an arrangement, it is an assembly of mostly older material.
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That would still be about 45 seconds of new material if you count the other force theme in the middle. Everyone agrees that there are snippets of material from past performances. Temp track or some sort of instructions from above is a strong possibility. Edited in is a possibility but then why go to the trouble of having him score and record only part of the teaser? The new material, based on my absurdly ridiculous amount of time spent watching/listening to his scores seems very clearly written directly to the teaser. I'd be curious about the force theme being direct lifts. Quite possible but surely somebody could post a comparison if that if it is the case.
- Adam S
The opening Force theme cue is very similar to 2:10 in "Tales of a Jedi Knight/Learn About the Force."
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For the first trailer some sources comfirmed it was newly written, there was quite a hype about it before it came out.
This time? Nothing even close to reliable sources.
My source says Williams indeed recorded it just in the last week or so. And he is reliable. But since I'm reluctant to name him, you'll just have to trust me on that. Or not. Up to you.
The music being recorded recently corroborates with another source, but this source could be related to your source. Can you say or know if the new material was written by Williams... just out of curiosity.
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Posted: |
Apr 18, 2015 - 11:25 AM
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By: |
Mike West
(Member)
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The music being recorded recently corroborates with another source, but this source could be related to your source. Can you say or know if the new material was written by Williams... just out of curiosity.
He told me Williams had "recorded" it, which I took to mean conducted it, and presumably composed it. Technically, he never said those words, but it's a reasonable assumption. I'll ask next time I speak with him.
that he recorded it is likely, but "composed? He supervised what others just copy-and-pasted together.
You think Williams takes time to seek out his old scores and searches for which part might fit in here or there?
Naaa... come on. Someone did it, maybe with instructions, he likely gave approval.
By definition this is not composing, even if Williams himself did it.
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The music being recorded recently corroborates with another source, but this source could be related to your source. Can you say or know if the new material was written by Williams... just out of curiosity.
He told me Williams had "recorded" it, which I took to mean conducted it, and presumably composed it. Technically, he never said those words, but it's a reasonable assumption. I'll ask next time I speak with him.
that he recorded it is likely, but "composed? He supervised what others just copy-and-pasted together.
You think Williams takes time to seek out his old scores and searches for which part might fit in here or there?
Naaa... come on. Someone did it, maybe with instructions, he likely gave approval.
By definition this is not composing, even if Williams himself did it.
What about the new material?
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Posted: |
Apr 18, 2015 - 12:33 PM
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By: |
Mike West
(Member)
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If they are, they are not thematic, just interchangeable bridges between material (except for the ascending thing)
Harmonically, that connective tissue is thematic--but ablate in an almost subliminal sense. The chorale like section over Vader's charred mask and Luke touching R2 by the funeral pyre are derived from the Force Theme (the signature chords i-VI-I-IV are all present ablate in a reconfigured order) along with the similarities to the Requiem Mass from the prequel trilogy (which is also intrinsically linked to the Force Theme).
The Lydian I-II/I ascending passage which leads into the closing cadence Yoda and the Force is just the two chords from Yoda's Theme.
If it's not Williams, it's someone who's very astutely deconstructed the two themes. 
- 'Sharky', from the 'just funny' JWFan...
I know, mr Shark, I remember your post there.
Your observations and descriptions are spot-on, you know what you are talking about.
I agree, someone was doing it who knows what he is doing.
Like every other occasion when Williams supervised or recommended,, Harry Potter, Superman IV.
Your comments over there were among the very very few saying something relevant in the just funny JWfan.
And the guys who can analyze music like this are so rare here, it is great for me to read things like that here,
usually it is all about when are the samples released, what is the next batch etc.
Anyway, your findings are findings you'll find everywhere, from Cuttthroat Island to The Burbs to I don't know.
Are those all related to the Force theme?
Harmonically those bits are in the same universe, but wouldn't you agree Williams would have made the
transitions much smoother? After the first Force theme, suddenly all embelishments are gone and it is just chords,
nothing of the textural things. Then the sound when Luke touches R2, this is not in Williams usual transparent orchestration
(I 'd agree the part directly before is, the strings sound like a Williams recording, the way the vibrato is done in the lower strings).
I am not posting this to keep arguing that I am right, I just appreciate your
astute observations and like to hear you opinion.
I agree that how the culmination in the Yoda and the Force thing works.
But the start?
I don't know, my intuition tells me it is not done by Williams, maybe I can
verbalize more precisely later.
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Posted: |
Apr 18, 2015 - 4:49 PM
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By: |
Mr. Shark
(Member)
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I know, mr Shark, I remember your post there.
Your observations and descriptions are spot-on, you know what you are talking about.
Cheers. 
Your comments over there were among the very very few saying something relevant in the just funny JWfan.
And the guys who can analyze music like this are so rare here, it is great for me to read things like that here,
usually it is all about when are the samples released, what is the next batch etc.
Thanks mate. You know you'd be very welcome if you were to chime in on the more musicological debates on JWFan, and ignored the juvenile banter.
Same goes to ToneRow, WILLIAMDCRUM, and TheFamousEccles. If you guys happen to be reading this thread (not likely I know), there is a place for serious discussion on JWFan, with Ludwig, TheGreyPilgrim, KK, Gnome in Plaid, Hlao-roo, Bluhrmenkehrl, karelm, Michael, Marcus, tedfud, myself and others.
Anyway, your findings are findings you'll find everywhere, from Cuttthroat Island to The Burbs to I don't know.
Are those all related to the Force theme?
I'm not sure what you mean here, Mike. I'm not familiar enough with the Debney and Goldsmith scores, but are you saying they share the same chord progression to The Force Theme?
After the first Force theme, suddenly all embelishments are gone and it is just chords,
nothing of the textural things.
It's too homophonic? I disagree, there's many cues in Williams scores with similar austere voicing and orchestration. Thor's much love 'religious sound' comes to mind.
What's likely, is I think Williams (or whoever wrote this) was following a temp track of various SW cues, and it's possible that there were gaps that had to 'filled in', in order to make each transition sound inevitable.
I am not posting this to keep arguing that I am right, I just appreciate your
astute observations and like to hear you opinion.
No worries, I welcome any debate as long as its reasonable.
I agree that how the culmination in the Yoda and the Force thing works.
But the start?
Yeah, the start is problematic. If it is Williams, it might have been further edited, disrupting his original intentions.
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