Film Score Monthly
FSM HOME MESSAGE BOARD FSM CDs FSM ONLINE RESOURCES FUN STUFF ABOUT US  SEARCH FSM   
Search Terms: 
Search Within:   search tips 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 9:01 AM   
 By:   mastadge   (Member)

OK, seriously, name a Star Trek movie whose 40 minute album was adequate for the material in the film.

The album cut of Wrath of Khan was practically perfect in every way.

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 9:12 AM   
 By:   Miles (MerM)   (Member)

OK, seriously, name a Star Trek movie whose 40 minute album was adequate for the material in the film.

The album cut of Wrath of Khan was practically perfect in every way.


Voyage Home's score barely went over 40 minutes (and that's with a ton of short stingers), so that album was just fine for its content.

Something people tend to forget with this and Giacchino's last Trek score - releasing a profitable album for scores like those isn't cheap. We're talking a 100-piece orchestra and 40-piece choir for a score that runs in excess of 100 minutes. Giacchino's longer albums didn't have the built-in fanbase Star Trek has, so a 78-minute CD for Super 8 (for example) wouldn't have broken the bank. For Trek, you can count on enough units being sold to make a longer release a losing venture (remember MV's story with the 2-disc BSG set?). A limited run of 5000 means less expensive terms, but probably not that much less (hence the many cost-cutting measures on '09's Deluxe Edition that fans love to bitch about).

In all likelihood, it was either this or nothing.

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 9:25 AM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

releasing a profitable album for scores like those isn't cheap. We're talking a 100-piece orchestra and 40-piece choir for a score that runs in excess of 100 minutes. Giacchino's longer albums didn't have the built-in fanbase Star Trek has, so a 78-minute CD for Super 8 (for example) wouldn't have broken the bank. For Trek, you can count on enough units being sold to make a longer release a losing venture

Indeed. As the pros here have occasionally explained, the counterintuitive truth of these releases is that sometimes, selling a lot more can make you a lot less. Costs are real. There's an unfortunate tendency among some here to think of Varèse Sarabande as a bunch of clueless fat cats cynically out to exploit the fans. Anybody who's ever been to their very modest office in a depressingly crummy building in Studio City can tell you that they're not making a mint off us.

 
 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 9:52 AM   
 By:   Ant   (Member)

And let's face it - a piece of music that isn't released tends to always be that much better in the long run.

Take for example that new Jurassic Park release. If the T-rex chase music was on the original soundtrack it would have been great, but isn't it that much more satisfying to be able to say "I finally have it!"

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 10:19 AM   
 By:   Erik Woods   (Member)

Take for example that new Jurassic Park release. If the T-rex chase music was on the original soundtrack it would have been great, but isn't it that much more satisfying to be able to say "I finally have it!"

It would have been much better to finally have it back in 1993. wink

-Erik-

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 10:24 AM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

Yea I tend to agree with Erik. Yes I still feel that a composer should get to truncate his score the exact way he wants for the official soundtrack CD, but I think if a year or so after each OST release, a LEGAL digital download was made available of the complete score, that would be the best of all worlds!

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 10:54 AM   
 By:   johnmullin   (Member)

OK, seriously, name a Star Trek movie whose 40 minute album was adequate for the material in the film.

I can't think of one.


STAR TREK IV for sure. Arguably STAR TREK: GENERATIONS.

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 10:56 AM   
 By:   Erik Woods   (Member)

The album cut of Wrath of Khan was practically perfect in every way.

Yes, it was. A really, really good album.

-Erik-

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 11:28 AM   
 By:   Khan   (Member)

OK, seriously, name a Star Trek movie whose 40 minute album was adequate for the material in the film.

I can't think of one.


STAR TREK IV for sure. Arguably STAR TREK: GENERATIONS.


I would agree with both of those.

 
 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 11:37 AM   
 By:   mnrvason   (Member)

And yet, there are certain cues that, for some reason, don't appear on the original album. In Star Trek - The Motion Picture, the cue "Malfunction" was not originally available and it was the cue that moved me the most in the film. In Wrath of Khan, the cue when Captain Terrell kills himself wasn't on the original release and, again, it was one of those short cues that was really moving to me. Star Trek: Insurrection has a missing cue (I believe it's called "Cloaked Ship" or something close to that) I find wonderful, but wasn't on the original album release.

So, whereas the original album is better than nothing, in many cases, obtaining the delux version (or expanded or completed) is, overall, a better experience for me. It's like spending time with an old friend and finding something new or forgotten about them all over again.

SheriffJoe

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 11:43 AM   
 By:   Erik Woods   (Member)

So, whereas the original album is better than nothing, in many cases, obtaining the delux version (or expanded or completed) is, overall, a better experience for me. It's like spending time with an old friend and finding something new or forgotten about them all over again.


I agree with this as well.

-Erik-

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 12:05 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

YOR is sorry to say, but it is just ludicrous to see people defending this outrageous 45 minutes albums.

Some are the very same who jumps into complete score releases!

It makes no sense.

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 12:22 PM   
 By:   Miles (MerM)   (Member)

YOR is sorry to say, but it is just ludicrous to see people defending this outrageous 45 minutes albums.

I wouldn't say I'm defending it, but I understand and accept that it's the only viable way this music gets released (at least right now). It's ok to be dissatisfied with the length, but a lot of those complaints are from people who don't understand the business side of it. Implying that Varese should bankrupt themselves just to make our niche market happy is rather naive.

We should really be thankful we're getting this much.

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 12:37 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

YOR is sorry to say, but it is just ludicrous to see people defending this outrageous 45 minutes albums.

What's to defend, exactly? They are putting out a product. We can choose to buy it or not buy it. Simple.

They have made their projections on how much they can spend on this product given their predictions of how well it will sell. They want to make money. This is their livelihood.

What would you have them do instead, Yor?

Also, in the future, is there an expanded release of this?

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 12:56 PM   
 By:   mstrox   (Member)

Giacchino is one of my favorite composers, but I get a lot of fatigue listening to some of his longer albums like MI4 and Super 8 - a highlights disc will do me just fine. I'm a guaranteed spender for the extended version when it comes out (given the sales of the previous deluxe Varese version, and the hotcakes market for almost all things musically Star Trek, it's a matter of when and not if AFAIC).

On the other hand, if anybody has an extra Star Trek 09 expansion gathering dust and wants to sell it for near MSRP, you'd be doing the world and this gentlman a huge favor wink

 
 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 1:47 PM   
 By:   musicpaladin2007   (Member)

OK, seriously, name a Star Trek movie whose 40 minute album was adequate for the material in the film.

The album cut of Wrath of Khan was practically perfect in every way.


Voyage Home's score barely went over 40 minutes (and that's with a ton of short stingers), so that album was just fine for its content.

Something people tend to forget with this and Giacchino's last Trek score - releasing a profitable album for scores like those isn't cheap. We're talking a 100-piece orchestra and 40-piece choir for a score that runs in excess of 100 minutes. Giacchino's longer albums didn't have the built-in fanbase Star Trek has, so a 78-minute CD for Super 8 (for example) wouldn't have broken the bank. For Trek, you can count on enough units being sold to make a longer release a losing venture (remember MV's story with the 2-disc BSG set?). A limited run of 5000 means less expensive terms, but probably not that much less (hence the many cost-cutting measures on '09's Deluxe Edition that fans love to bitch about).

In all likelihood, it was either this or nothing.


What is MV's story about the 2-disc BSG set? I've never seen that before and you've piqued my curiosity.

Part of my confusion about the longer albums is that I thought that a large part of the reason we are able to get these expanded albums is that the musician unions have different contract terms than they used to which allow for longer periods (thought I had seen that 40-45 used to be standard because thats how the unions charged and that they were more expensive for 15 minute incriments over that)

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 1:55 PM   
 By:   Miles (MerM)   (Member)

What is MV's story about the 2-disc BSG set? I've never seen that before and you've piqued my curiosity.

Found it here: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&pageID=3&threadID=94920&archive=0

"In regards to releasing "COMPLETE" scores to new titles:

Simply put to do a "complete score" release for a new release is cost prohibitive. When we did Battlestar Galactica Season 4 as a 2 cd set we didn't realize that the AFM fees would be DOUBLE for the release. Once we passed the 15,000 unit mark we got hit with a bill that nearly crippled the company. Luckily we were able to pay it off and continue on, but if we knew then what we know now there is no way in HELL we would have done a 2 cd set. At the end of the day this massive release was a loss for us.

If Disney/Intrada wanted to do a complete 2 cd set of OZ the cost for the AFM fees would be in the neighborhood of $200,000 to $500,000...and that's just the union. That doesn't count royalties, SAG, manufacturing, etc. . . .

So, guys -- use your noggin' before you start bloggin'

MV"

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 2:14 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

What's to defend, exactly? They are putting out a product. We can choose to buy it or not buy it. Simple.

They have made their projections on how much they can spend on this product given their predictions of how well it will sell. They want to make money. This is their livelihood.

What would you have them do instead, Yor?

Also, in the future, is there an expanded release of this?


No, Varese just want to make a lot of money releasing a ludicrous 45 minutes album and them, a few months later, releasing a 2CD set.

This is not cool at all.

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 2:17 PM   
 By:   Miles (MerM)   (Member)

I just posted an example of how that couldn't be true.

Yor, am I on your ignore list? I hope not. I'm a big fan of all those genocides you committed.

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 2:26 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

Panda is nife person.

And YOR does not put anyone on ignore list. That is for cowards.

YOR is just pointing that a 45 minutes album for such a grand movie is just ludicrous.

Ok, Varese did not need to release a 2CD album, but at least a 60 minutes one.

There is no excuse for this.

 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
© 2014 Film Score Monthly. All Rights Reserved.