"In regards to releasing "COMPLETE" scores to new titles:
Simply put to do a "complete score" release for a new release is cost prohibitive. When we did Battlestar Galactica Season 4 as a 2 cd set we didn't realize that the AFM fees would be DOUBLE for the release. Once we passed the 15,000 unit mark we got hit with a bill that nearly crippled the company. Luckily we were able to pay it off and continue on, but if we knew then what we know now there is no way in HELL we would have done a 2 cd set. At the end of the day this massive release was a loss for us.
If Disney/Intrada wanted to do a complete 2 cd set of OZ the cost for the AFM fees would be in the neighborhood of $200,000 to $500,000...and that's just the union. That doesn't count royalties, SAG, manufacturing, etc. . . .
So, guys -- use your noggin' before you start bloggin'
MV"
Wow.
Still confused where I might have read that the AFM terms had changed allowing for longer albums, but I had no idea. Thank you MV, if you are reading this, for eating that... whether or not it put you in the hole, that 2-CD BSG release was magnificent. Hoping that you have learned and that the Caprica 2-CD set won't do the same :-)
Also, in the future, is there an expanded release of this?
SchiffyM, if you had bothered to watch the documentary made about Yor's life and exploits, you'd know that he is way too busy hunting to spend a lot of time browsing the internet for speciality CD information.
How much time do you think the man has to stay current on releases? According to the trailer, none at all.
$200,000 - 500,000!? How did the licensing fees get so high for a market that doesn't support it? Seems to me that AFM is sadly miscalculating the value of there product or, do they dislike the idea of albums being released so they try to out-price the market?
Any other business that produced a product that cost 10 times more then what consumers are willing to pay would have 2 choices; 1) find a way to lower cost or 2) go out of business. Does AFM want the soundtrack business to disappear? Why else would they have fees so high that make releasing a very popular album a nervous venture for the labels.
"We'd love to release this score but, it might sell amazingly well and doom the company." Just doesn't make much business sense to me, at least not soundtrack business sense.
Still confused where I might have read that the AFM terms had changed allowing for longer albums, but I had no idea.
They have changed, you're right. But it's not as simple as "was once expensive, now is cheap." There are many variables at work, and among them is the sliding scale of sales. That is, the AFM came to understand that their rates were prohibitive for scores that would sell only a few thousand copies, but they don't want to be taken advantage of if a score turns out to be that rare good seller. That is, you can have them cheap for "House of Cards," but if it turns out to be "Titanic," you have to pay them accordingly. Which is why a good seller can wind up losing money while a moderate seller can make money.
It's more complicated than just that, and of course has to do with number of musicians performing. And in cases where there's a choir, that's an entirely different union (SAG), and they offer no such discount.
Also, different rates apply for older scores than apply for contemporary ones, though I don't know what the cut-off is.
In the '90s, contemporary score CDs from specialty labels (pretty much meaning Varèse) were generally 30 minutes long. So 45 minutes is an improvement.
Also, in the future, is there an expanded release of this?
SchiffyM, if you had bothered to watch the documentary made about Yor's life and exploits, you'd know that he is way too busy hunting to spend a lot of time browsing the internet for speciality CD information.
How much time do you think the man has to stay current on releases? According to the trailer, none at all.
There is also another factor, one that affected the Star Trek 2009 score, including the Deluxe Edition.
The Choir has a similar union structure for general releases as AFM does, but does not have an "Archival" scale to allow for limited-numbered releases, unlike the AFM.
The major reason the 2009 Deluxe Edition, and some tracks of the OST release, omitted the choir is these costs.
So in addition to the costs mentioned above already, this also makes it cost prohibitive to release more than around 40-45 minutes for a score CD.
There are a lot of parties that want their pound of flesh for a score release like this, so Varese, and any other label, have to gamble that they will sell enough units to pay off all these costs, as well as make enough of a profit on what's left to survive as a business and make a living.
It is well known that Varese and other labels often sell titles at a net loss, but also sell enough of certain key titles to offset these costs.
Varese probably wants to have a longer release, but are prohibited from doing so due to the costs.
I hope Varese gets enough profits from this CD to justify the outlay costs for a Deluxe Edition of the score down the line, ala Star Trek 2009, but I will not count on that happening.
I will enjoy what we can get on this release far more than lament what was not released.
They likely know the potential for sales, but have to play it safe to stay in business.
Sorry, but there is no excuse for such a lame release.
Varese was once a great label.
Not anymore.
There may be no "excuse", but there is absolutely a valid reason.
If Varese cannot afford to put out a longer release due to costs, please provide the alternative.
- Longer release?
Not possible for reasons already noted ad nauseam above. Not viable.
1. No release
This would be a failure, and to nobody's liking.
2. Longer release, limited
Not viable for general consumption, and would be throwing away potential profits in the event of sales taking off. Not a good business decision.
3. Shorter release?
That's what your complaining about.
4. Shorter release, with longer, limited release down the road?
Assuming good sales, this might actually occur. Past precedent: Star Trek (2009).
Basically, the only truly viable options for Varese, or ANY company releasing the score, are options 3 and 4 above.
I have issues with some of the Varese releases, notably the Star Trek 2009 Deluxe Edition (some execution issues with the product addressed by many others here), but not this one in-and-of-itself.
I share your wish for a longer/complete release, but financial reality cannot be changed by Varese Sarabande.
If you see a viable option 5 to add to my list, please feel free to share, so that those in the know here can assess them.
Myself, I cannot think of anything specific without Varese Sarabande working hard and losing money as a result.
Sorry, but there is no excuse for such a lame release.
Varese was once a great label.
Not anymore.
Jesus Christ, Yor, why don't you put your money where your mouth is, start your own damn label and then spend a 6-figure sum of cash to release a longer album? Varese has every excuse, they're a business and they want to stay in business. Why possibly bankrupt your record label over just one movie? Varese has made smart decisions its entire history, otherwise it would have closed down decades ago. We're not the ones putting hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line with these album releases.
Hey, you, do not use master Goldsmith image to attack YOR!
This drives YOR mad!
And, second, if Varese does not have the balls to release a proper album of the new Star Trek movie, then it should pass and let other label to do so, like LLL or Intrada.
Hey, you, do not use master Goldsmith image to attack YOR!
This drives YOR mad!
And, second, if Varese does not have the balls to release a proper album of the new Star Trek movie, then it should pass and let other label to do so, like LLL or Intrada.
Period.
It's not a case of "balls", it's a case of dollars. It would happen to any label that needs to make smart business decisions for their label, their employees and their future.
And, second, if Varese does not have the balls to release a proper album of the new Star Trek movie, then it should pass and let other label to do so, like LLL or Intrada.
You mean the same Intrada that was raked over the coals here for not releasing "Oz The Great and Powerful" complete?
Varèse is not in the business of passing so that competing labels release things they can make money on. Besides, any label was free to try to get this one. It's a free market.
Also, nothing "improper" about this new album. I think you've been drinking too much dinosaur blood, Yor.
IGNORE YOR. We obviously can't reason with him (that's been tried time and time again), so why bother? We're just wasting time responding to him. Let it go.
Thanks for the information guys, I appreciate it and love learning - the business side of this is something I don't know as much about and is always interesting to hear about the machinations of why we get what we get.