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 Posted:   Jan 4, 2014 - 3:35 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

It just never gets through. People just don't get it.

Some people. Yes.

I remember a few years ago, when NBC had John Williams refresh their decades-old recordings of his news themes for their own use on television and some here complained that this was a waste, and why hadn't they had him record one of his unrecorded symphonies or deteriorated film scores instead. The notion that a company might have an agenda not catering to our tiny niche seems a concept some here just can't grasp.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 4, 2014 - 8:03 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

Looks like a fine cd, I'll buy it for sure.

I hope the suite from Sahara is fairly long. It's a film I've enjoyed for 50 years and I love the last few minutes of the score at the end of the film.

Like some others here, I'm not excited about yet another Ben Hur but I can understand why Chandos put it on the cd.

I hope the Ben Hur suite is short ..... and the Jungle Book and Thief of Bagdad suites are long.

 
 Posted:   Jan 4, 2014 - 8:35 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)



I hope the Ben Hur suite is short ..... and the Jungle Book and Thief of Bagdad suites are long.






All Chandos CDs are available as lossless downloads at The Classical Store, so if there's only one or two suites of real interest, they can be bought on their own without loss of sound quality.

 
 Posted:   Jan 5, 2014 - 8:48 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)


I hope the suite from Sahara is fairly long. It's a film I've enjoyed for 50 years and I love the last few minutes of the score at the end of the film.

Like some others here, I'm not excited about yet another Ben Hur but I can understand why Chandos put it on the cd.

I hope the Ben Hur suite is short ..... and the Jungle Book and Thief of Bagdad suites are long.



I'm not party to what's to be actually on the CD, but the probability would be that the 'Ben-Hur', in a Chandos classical context, will be the published orchestral suite, namely six pieces, the Prelude, the Love Theme, the Rowing of the Galley Slaves, the Burning Desert, The Mother's Love and the Parade of the Charioteers. That's between 15 and 20 minutes.

Similarly I'd expect it's the published 'Thief of Baghdad' suite of about 20 minutes, and perhaps the 1/2 hour narrator suite from 'The Jungle Book' (minus narrator). The 'Sahara' published suite is around 7-8 minutes or so.



That'd just about fill one CD. Any deviation from that will be a surprise, and maybe a pleasant one.

 
 Posted:   Jan 5, 2014 - 9:00 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

Chandos are a world famous classical label. This will expose classical music afficionados to Rozsa in a way the specialist labels never can. But it's in a classical suite context, and you need to understand the mentality.

Tadlow are great of course, but their bread & butter is current session musics for current films: they only record soundtracks as a sideline. Tribute and Intrada are speciality labels that cater for the 'fan' and consequently solicit the fan's desires. Tribute is the only label that exists solely on this, and these are tough times.

The more markets exposed to Rozsa, the more chance of his legacy blooming, and that means more recordings. Chandos are the big boys, gentlemen, playing ball in a big park for a big league.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 5, 2014 - 9:29 AM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)


It looks like the only "new" Rozsa music for long-time collectors on this cd is 7 minutes out of a 70 plus minutes cd! A disappointment to say the least. I bought the Ben Hur LPs in 1964, now 50 years later, I get yet another Ben Hur!

It looks like Chandos is playing it safe taking a very conservative approach, can't say I blame them.
It will introduce more people to Rozsa's film scores, and that's a good thing.

Still, I hope this cd will sell well and will inspire Chandos to issue a volume 2 with a more diverse selection of film titles.



 
 Posted:   Jan 5, 2014 - 9:42 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

It looks like the only "new" Rozsa music for long-time collectors on this cd is 7 minutes out of a 70 plus minutes cd! A disappointment to say the least. I bought the Ben Hur LPs in 1964, now 50 years later, I get yet another Ben Hur!

It looks like Chandos is playing it safe taking a very conservative approach, can't say I blame them.
It will introduce more people to Rozsa's film scores, and that's a good thing.

Still, I hope this cd will sell well and will inspire Chandos to issue a volume 2 with a more diverse selection of film titles.



I'm still only guessing, you understand.

But when you realise that such titles as 'Spellbound' are not included, it does sort of have the look that a Volume 2 might be on the cards. Several composers had that treatment Vaughan-Williams even had FOUR, and Korngold two (so far ...). So maybe sales will be the decider? That's in our hands.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 5, 2014 - 9:51 AM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

It looks like the only "new" Rozsa music for long-time collectors on this cd is 7 minutes out of a 70 plus minutes cd! A disappointment to say the least. I bought the Ben Hur LPs in 1964, now 50 years later, I get yet another Ben Hur!

It looks like Chandos is playing it safe taking a very conservative approach, can't say I blame them.
It will introduce more people to Rozsa's film scores, and that's a good thing.

Still, I hope this cd will sell well and will inspire Chandos to issue a volume 2 with a more diverse selection of film titles.



I'm still only guessing, you understand.

But when you realise that such titles as 'Spellbound' are not included, it does sort of have the look that a Volume 2 might be on the cards. Several composers had that treatment Vaughan-Williams even had FOUR, and Korngold two (so far ...). So maybe sales will be the decider? That's in our hands.




Let's hope William that a volume 2 is in the future.

I'm looking forward to the Sahara suite to be sure. The first Rozsa score I noticed was Thief of Bagdad in the mid 1950s, it's perhaps my favorite Rozsa score. In the late 1950s I discovered The Jungle Book, another Rozsa favorite. It will be nice to get new recordings of both films.

Yet another Spellbound? Don't torture me any more William! smile

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 5, 2014 - 10:13 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Looks like I will have to buy this just to get "The Jungle Book."

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 5, 2014 - 3:09 PM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

Life certainly is unfair. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 5, 2014 - 5:51 PM   
 By:   John B. Archibald   (Member)

What's left of the JUNGLE BOOK tracks, and there was quite a bit, including the "Forest Fire" and "Finale," was already released by the Film Music Society. Archival sound, expectedly, but very good to have.

Recommended.

(Whole score needs to be re-recorded, along with THIEF OF BAGHDAD, THAT HAMILTON WOMAN, A WOMAN'S VENGEANCE, SAHARA, FIVE GRAVES TO CAIRO, and many others from the 40's.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 5, 2014 - 5:51 PM   
 By:   John B. Archibald   (Member)

What's left of the JUNGLE BOOK tracks, and there was quite a bit, including the "Forest Fire" and "Finale," was already released by the Film Music Society. Archival sound, expectedly, but very good to have.

Recommended.

(Whole score needs to be re-recorded, along with THIEF OF BAGHDAD, THAT HAMILTON WOMAN, A WOMAN'S VENGEANCE, SAHARA, FIVE GRAVES TO CAIRO, and many others from the 40's.)

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 5, 2014 - 6:00 PM   
 By:   Jim Doherty   (Member)

I agree with some people about this upcoming CD, and disagree with others. It's kind of the same case as with the Herrmann CD Chandos released; they are trying to capture the classical-buying market by including some "big name" contents. In the case of Herrmann, it was CITIZEN KANE; in this case it's BEN-HUR and to a lesser degree, most of the other contents. BUT, is that really where they should focus their interests? In the case of the Herrmann CD, I think they really missed the mark. Look at it... HANGOVER SQUARE, and another recording of CITIZEN KANE. Are classical buyers going to go for the CD because it's got CITIZE KANE? I kind of doubt it. However, if they would have skewed the contents more toward the wants of film score collectors, by including new recording of some scores that HAVEN'T received modern re-recordings, perhaps that would have served everyone better. BUT, perhaps not; I don't know what the sales numbers were on the Herrmann disc (I guess they were quite a bit below those of the Chandos Vaughn Williams film music discs for example; a composer who has a much, much better audience in the classical market - an audience that would probably be much more willing to purchase CDs by a well-known and well-liked classical composer).

So, in the case of Vaughn Williams, you've got a built-in classical client base, who will probably go for whatever scores you include, because they like and want more of Vaughn Williams. In the case of the Herrmann CD, you're basically trying to hook classical buyers by force-feeding them a score to a "classic movie." In that case, I don't think there's enough of a base of classical-Herrmann fans to warrant including some big-name item on the bill to try and draw them in. It would have better in the Herrmann case to aim toward the people who love his film music, and cater to their needs.

ROZSA... here, it's complicated. There probably IS a good-sized base of classical admirers who like Rozsa, and therefore perhaps a better client base for his film scores, so... why include so many already-much-recorded items, instead of perhaps one well-known work, and then some lesser-known gems? I admit, the SAHARA suite is the draw for the film music afficionados; but on the other hand, are the other well-known and previously-available selections actually going to draw a bigger classical-buying audience than a well-selected collection of lesser-recorded film cues would have drawn from from a Rozsa-film-music-buying public?

I don't know. But, Chandos seems to be wavering on that edge of trying to please both camps. I don't know how the classical camps feel, but on the film music end, on some of these CDs, I feel sort of cheated.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 5, 2014 - 7:26 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

I agree with some people about this upcoming CD, and disagree with others. It's kind of the same case as with the Herrmann CD Chandos released; they are trying to capture the classical-buying market by including some "big name" contents. In the case of Herrmann, it was CITIZEN KANE; in this case it's BEN-HUR and to a lesser degree, most of the other contents. BUT, is that really where they should focus their interests? In the case of the Herrmann CD, I think they really missed the mark. Look at it... HANGOVER SQUARE, and another recording of CITIZEN KANE. Are classical buyers going to go for the CD because it's got CITIZE KANE? I kind of doubt it. However, if they would have skewed the contents more toward the wants of film score collectors, by including new recording of some scores that HAVEN'T received modern re-recordings, perhaps that would have served everyone better. BUT, perhaps not; I don't know what the sales numbers were on the Herrmann disc (I guess they were quite a bit below those of the Chandos Vaughn Williams film music discs for example; a composer who has a much, much better audience in the classical market - an audience that would probably be much more willing to purchase CDs by a well-known and well-liked classical composer).

So, in the case of Vaughn Williams, you've got a built-in classical client base, who will probably go for whatever scores you include, because they like and want more of Vaughn Williams. In the case of the Herrmann CD, you're basically trying to hook classical buyers by force-feeding them a score to a "classic movie." In that case, I don't think there's enough of a base of classical-Herrmann fans to warrant including some big-name item on the bill to try and draw them in. It would have better in the Herrmann case to aim toward the people who love his film music, and cater to their needs.

ROZSA... here, it's complicated. There probably IS a good-sized base of classical admirers who like Rozsa, and therefore perhaps a better client base for his film scores, so... why include so many already-much-recorded items, instead of perhaps one well-known work, and then some lesser-known gems? I admit, the SAHARA suite is the draw for the film music afficionados; but on the other hand, are the other well-known and previously-available selections actually going to draw a bigger classical-buying audience than a well-selected collection of lesser-recorded film cues would have drawn from from a Rozsa-film-music-buying public?

I don't know. But, Chandos seems to be wavering on that edge of trying to please both camps. I don't know how the classical camps feel, but on the film music end, on some of these CDs, I feel sort of cheated.




Interesting comments Jim and I agree.

"Chandos seems to be wavering on the edge of trying to please both camps"

Chandos is NOT trying very hard to please film music enthusiasts ......... giving us ONLY 7 minutes of a possible 77 minute cd! frown

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 5, 2014 - 8:30 PM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

Chandos is NOT trying very hard to please film music enthusiasts ......... giving us ONLY 7 minutes of a possible 77 minute cd! frown

Hang on, hang on, how do you figure that? I'm a Rozsa enthusiast but I don't have anything on that CD but Ben-Hur and the Sahara Main Title. Are you assuming that all Rozsaphiles buy archival material from the 40s? I certainly don't; I wouldn't even consider it.

I appreciate your disappointment if you're a well-heeled collector with everything of Rozsa ever released, but to talk about 7 minutes out of 77 as if it applied to all Rozsa admirers is a bit much (if not utterly premature).

 
 Posted:   Jan 5, 2014 - 8:39 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

Are classical buyers going to go for the CD because it's got CITIZE KANE? I kind of doubt it. However, if they would have skewed the contents more toward the wants of film score collectors, by including new recording of some scores that HAVEN'T received modern re-recordings, perhaps that would have served everyone better. BUT, perhaps not

Obviously, it's all conjecture (as you freely admit). But I do fall into the camp that believes that for these things to sell to Chandos's target audience, they need a marquee title. For Herrmann, that would mean either another recording of a high-profile Hitchcock or "Kane." And I can't imagine any serious Herrmann film score collector not wanting the premiere recording that came with "Kane": a full half-hour of "Hangover Square."

All anybody's doing is their best guess. But recording only obscure scores (as most high-profile scores have been issued) just to please our tiny niche (a large part of which vocally objects to rerecordings on principle, anyway) seems a good way to lose money. Sadly, Tribute seems to be all the evidence we need of that.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 6, 2014 - 10:17 AM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

Chandos is NOT trying very hard to please film music enthusiasts ......... giving us ONLY 7 minutes of a possible 77 minute cd! frown

Hang on, hang on, how do you figure that? I'm a Rozsa enthusiast but I don't have anything on that CD but Ben-Hur and the Sahara Main Title. Are you assuming that all Rozsaphiles buy archival material from the 40s? I certainly don't; I wouldn't even consider it.

I appreciate your disappointment if you're a well-heeled collector with everything of Rozsa ever released, but to talk about 7 minutes out of 77 as if it applied to all Rozsa admirers is a bit much (if not utterly premature).




Don't get me wrong, this looks like it will be an excellent cd and I will buy it.

For long-time collectors there is little new on it, just the Sahara 7 minute suite. Sahara is a great score to be sure and I always wanted it.

I have the Varese CD that had the "concert suites" of Jungle Book and Thief of Bagdad. For those who don't have the Varese cd then there is a lot of interest here. I also have the FSM cd to Thief of Bagdad. The Varese concert suites were newly re-recorded in the 1980s, they are not archival. The sound quality is excellent.

The Rozsa site says both Jungle Book and Thief of Bagdad are the "concert suites." I think the Jungle Book suite is fantastic. The Thief of Bagdad suite is disappointing as it contains the lesser music of the film: Flying horse, Silver Maid, Marketplace etc. These are fine cues, but the suite does not have the very dramatic part of the score. It does have a beautiful version of the love theme.

As I mentioned before this cd is aimed at classical collectors as an introduction to Rozsa. It's perhaps the safest approach Chandos can take.

For long-time fans, this is like a label saying: "Let's do a new Max Steiner cd. We will do 65 minutes from Gone With The Wind and 5 minutes from Springfield Rifle."

Well ...... At least another Spellbound is not on it ...... smile

 
 Posted:   Jan 6, 2014 - 10:48 AM   
 By:   Stefan Huber   (Member)



For long-time fans, this is like a label saying: "Let's do a new Max Steiner cd. We will do 65 minutes from Gone With The Wind and 5 minutes from Springfield Rifle."



There's never been a 65 minute Hi-Fi recording of "Gone With The Wind" thus far smile

I'm happy that they've decided to record the "Sahara" suite.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 6, 2014 - 10:59 AM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)



For long-time fans, this is like a label saying: "Let's do a new Max Steiner cd. We will do 65 minutes from Gone With The Wind and 5 minutes from Springfield Rifle."



There's never been a 65 minute Hi-Fi recording of "Gone With The Wind" thus far smile

I'm happy that they've decided to record the "Sahara" suite.




Ah Stefan ..... don't encourage the labels with yet another GWTW! smile

 
 Posted:   Jan 6, 2014 - 4:19 PM   
 By:   Ron Hardcastle   (Member)

Re: "...will consist of suites from BEN-HUR, SAHARA, THIEF OF BAGDAD plus an all-orchestral JUNGLE BOOK."

Looks good to me! The only one of those four I have is "Ben-Hur," so I'll be very tempted to buy it. And I've long been a big fan of Chandos, although most of what I have from them is classical.

 
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