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 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 4:30 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

I think that you mean the DRG release of VIKINGS/SOLOMON..

Legend released it first, but they appear to be essentially identical. I recall the Legend cd had some technical problems and corrected cds were re-issued.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 4:39 PM   
 By:   philiperic   (Member)

I just wish that the entire score could get an official release. Beyond that, I also wish that Twilight Time would think about adding "Solomon and Sheba" to their blu-ray release calendar. It may not be everyone's "cup of tea" but many of us really loved it and remember it especially fondly. It certainly is colorful, epic and deliciously campy with the unforgettable "orgiastic dance" that had this kid swooning over Gina Lollobrigida. More Nascimbene films in BD would be wonderful, as well, such as "The Vikings" or "Francis of Assisi" which would be a dreams-come-true for King Vidor and Michael Curtiz collectors. How about it TT?

Totally agree, Ed. But has TT released any UA films ?? Isnt it more likely to be be an MGM BR?

Another Mario Nascimbene scored epic that is more likely to be a TT release is the Columbia's BARABBAS(1962) - maybe the Roadshow version in 70mm + a longer running time.


I'm one of the 'few' that saw BARABBAS during its very short Roadshow run in NYC. From what I recollect the version that is available on DVD is the complete film-except for Overture and Entr'acte(same music as Intermezzo on the lp or cd). Of course the music cue leading into the intermission has been cut from the film. Other than the Roadshow trappings I believe the dvd is complete.


Lucky you! I would be happy to see BARABBAS from the roadshow 70mm print - but probably this is now lost - just like a stereo print of the roadshow of NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA .

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 4:39 PM   
 By:   philiperic   (Member)

I just wish that the entire score could get an official release. Beyond that, I also wish that Twilight Time would think about adding "Solomon and Sheba" to their blu-ray release calendar. It may not be everyone's "cup of tea" but many of us really loved it and remember it especially fondly. It certainly is colorful, epic and deliciously campy with the unforgettable "orgiastic dance" that had this kid swooning over Gina Lollobrigida. More Nascimbene films in BD would be wonderful, as well, such as "The Vikings" or "Francis of Assisi" which would be a dreams-come-true for King Vidor and Michael Curtiz collectors. How about it TT?

Totally agree, Ed. But has TT released any UA films ?? Isnt it more likely to be be an MGM BR?

Another Mario Nascimbene scored epic that is more likely to be a TT release is the Columbia's BARABBAS(1962) - maybe the Roadshow version in 70mm + a longer running time.


I'm one of the 'few' that saw BARABBAS during its very short Roadshow run in NYC. From what I recollect the version that is available on DVD is the complete film-except for Overture and Entr'acte(same music as Intermezzo on the lp or cd). Of course the music cue leading into the intermission has been cut from the film. Other than the Roadshow trappings I believe the dvd is complete.


Lucky you! I would be happy to see BARABBAS from the roadshow 70mm print - but probably this is now lost - just like a stereo print of the roadshow of NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA .

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 4:45 PM   
 By:   dan the man   (Member)

TO BILL CARSON- You were an actor in those movies? what name do you go under in films?

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 4:50 PM   
 By:   paul rossen   (Member)

I just wish that the entire score could get an official release. Beyond that, I also wish that Twilight Time would think about adding "Solomon and Sheba" to their blu-ray release calendar. It may not be everyone's "cup of tea" but many of us really loved it and remember it especially fondly. It certainly is colorful, epic and deliciously campy with the unforgettable "orgiastic dance" that had this kid swooning over Gina Lollobrigida. More Nascimbene films in BD would be wonderful, as well, such as "The Vikings" or "Francis of Assisi" which would be a dreams-come-true for King Vidor and Michael Curtiz collectors. How about it TT?

Totally agree, Ed. But has TT released any UA films ?? Isnt it more likely to be be an MGM BR?

Another Mario Nascimbene scored epic that is more likely to be a TT release is the Columbia's BARABBAS(1962) - maybe the Roadshow version in 70mm + a longer running time.


I'm one of the 'few' that saw BARABBAS during its very short Roadshow run in NYC. From what I recollect the version that is available on DVD is the complete film-except for Overture and Entr'acte(same music as Intermezzo on the lp or cd). Of course the music cue leading into the intermission has been cut from the film. Other than the Roadshow trappings I believe the dvd is complete.


Lucky you! I would be happy to see BARABBAS from the roadshow 70mm print - but probably this is now lost - just like a stereo print of the roadshow of NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA .



Nah...BARABBAS is really not a very good movie. And depending who one speaks to/listens to N&A was/was not in stereo. All I can say I saw N&A within the first month of it's NYC Roadshow run at
The Criterion Theatre...it was in mono!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 5:45 PM   
 By:   philiperic   (Member)

I respectfully disagree about BARABBAS -- maybe a guilty pleasure - the dubbing doesnt help - but I think that it is one of the better religious epics.

I saw N+A in roadshow in Chicago - still have the program - and it certainly sounded sterophonic to me. I also recall ads that mentioned stereo. IMDB lists it as having 6 track stereo ...

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 6:42 PM   
 By:   paul rossen   (Member)

I respectfully disagree about BARABBAS -- maybe a guilty pleasure - the dubbing doesnt help - but I think that it is one of the better religious epics.

I saw N+A in roadshow in Chicago - still have the program - and it certainly sounded sterophonic to me. I also recall ads that mentioned stereo. IMDB lists it as having 6 track stereo ...



What I can remember about the roadshow version of BARABBAS was that it was loud and the sound was a lot better than what purports to be stereo on the DVD. As you stated the dubbing doesn't help. It's certainly a huge picture but for whatever reason it left me cold not caring about a single character. And I have the program to this one as well as N&A. N&A in stereo has been debated for a long time now. Supposedly there were stereo showings but the 'official' records show mono-even in blow up 70mm. So go figure. It wouldn't surprise me either way and I can only go by my experiences in theaters. I would not believe IMDB. I do know that for many years N&A had a cut version that made the rounds but the version on DVD and the TT Blu-ray is the full roadshow cut.

To me Solomon and Sheba is a lot more fun to watch than Barabbas. It wouldn't surprise me if TT releases both of them in blu-ray within the next 2 years or so. (no inside information here)

 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 6:49 PM   
 By:   George Komar   (Member)

Joe, the selections from SOLOMON AND SHEBA on the Legend CARTHAGE/SOLOMON CD total about 45:00. They are stereo. I think there are some things that are not on the UA LP.

The tracks are not true stereo, but rather a rather spacious digitally processed mono. It's dramatically better than the original dry mono, but nevertheless not directional stereo.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 8:01 PM   
 By:   Jim Doherty   (Member)

George, some of the SOLOMON tracks are fake stereo, while others are real stereo, with obvious left/right separation. Take a listen for instance to track 19, starting at 2:24 - different percussion parts in each channel, violins on the left, brass in the center. Or track 20, at 9:00. Also track 23.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 9:30 PM   
 By:   Jim Doherty   (Member)

O.K.

This has now turned into an obsession. After hearing about the overture, exit music, etc. on the Soundtrack Library CD, I bought a laserdisc from ebay (which claims to be three minutes longer than the DVD), and a prerecorded cassette of the MCA release of the ST album, in the hopes it really is stereo, and will trump my UA mono LP.

Once I get all this, I'll try to put together the most complete version of this score that I can. It will probably turn out to be exactly the same as that Soundtrack Library CD, but seeing as I couldn't track down a copy of that CD, this was my only route. (Anyway, I think those Soundtrack Library CDs tended to rot, didn't they?)

Gee, I wish I could paid for this! This is my passion, I love doing this. Any labels out there looking for an extra audio engineer? I've got over 20 years of experience.

Anyway, once I determine the LP tracks, I will post the results. I have a feeling that most of it is already covered by the Legend CD, but, you never know.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 10:03 PM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

Back in 2004 we had a wonderful thread on Roadshow Films, and one of the tributaries of the thread went into NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA---what cuts had been made for the general release and whether the film was in stereo or not.

I saw the roadshow of NICHOLAS in Los Angeles (at the old Beverly Theatre in Beverly Hills, I believe) and it was in MONO, much to my dismay.

But please observe the final note to the editors in what I have posted below. After reading these cutters' notes, I would have no question that at least some prints were in mag stereo.




.....We've been talking here about NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA, and I thought the following might be of interest to some of you. It seems to answer some of the questions about running time, cuts, intermissions, overtures, and stereo.

This is the official cutting continuity given to cutters in the Columbia film exchanges so they could cut the 35mm optical exhibitor prints to a non-roadshow length. (In the old days, it was often the case that once prints had been made and shipped to the exchanges, if a decision was made to shorten film lengths they would often be made in the actual release prints. For the record, film was printed on 1000 foot lengths and two lengths of approximately 1000 feet each were spliced together to make up the 2000 foot projection reel. Thus Reel 1A and 1B were spliced together to make Reel 1AB - approximately 20 minutes.)



NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

April 17, 1972

Instructions for cuts to be made in 35mm OPTICAL SOUND composite prints:


Reel 1AB:
DELETION: Cut Nos. 21-37, Complete Lullaby sequence in Imperial Bedroom.
MEASUREMENTS: Measure from academy start mark (0+1 on footage counter) to 379 feet plus 12 frames (close up of NICHOLAS - 20 frames before scene change) and delete 216 feet plus 9 frames (cut ends at scene change).

Reel 1AB:
DELETION: Cut Nos. 28-45 (Old Script). Complete London Meeting Hall Sequence.
MEASUREMENTS: Continue measurement to 1,014 feet plus 10 frames (medium close up of NICHOLAS - 12 frames before scene change) and delete 237 feet plus 15 frames (cut ends at scene change).

Reel 4AB:
DELETION: Part Cut No. 7 - Cut No. 22. Spala part of Painting scene.
MEASUREMENTS: Measure from first frame of picture (0+1 on footage counter) to 841 feet plus 12 frames (long shot of girls and French artist - 8 feet plus 10 frames before scene change) and delete 105 feet plus 6 frames (cut ends 21 frames after scene change).

Reel 5AB:
DELETION: Cut Nos. 39-61. After Archduke is killed, delete boy screaming and following scene in his bedroom. We go from the gunshot to Witte's hand on table.
MEASUREMENTS: Measure from first frame of picture (0+1 on footage counter) to 392 feet plus 5 frames (close up of man shooting gun at scene change) and delete 159 feet plus 10 frames (cut ends at scene change).

Reel 5AB:
DELETION: Cut No. 42. Intermission Title.
MEASUREMENTS: Continue measurement to 1,346 feet plus 2 frames - delete balance of film to end of reel and insert special short section of composite print WITHOUT the word intermission superimposed. This new section fades out to black with marching footsteps in the black.

Reel 6AB:
DELETION: Black background of music and Cut Nos. 1-14. Entr'acte music and officer suicide.
MEASUREMENTS: Measure from academy start mark (0+1 on footage counter) and delete first 419 feet plus 6 frames of this reel so that we start the reel on the Red Cross of ALEXANDRA'S uniform (at scene change) (direct change-over from the black film at end of reel 5AB).

Reel 9AB:
DELETION: Cut Nos. 2-23. Tobolsk - NICHOLAS talks to Alexis after his crash on the stairs.
MEASUREMENTS: Measure from first frame of picture (0+1 on footage counter) to 760 feet plus 8 frames (medium shot of man and woman near door - at scene change) and delete 202 feet plus 14 frames (cut ends at scene change).

Reel 10AB:
DELETION: Cut Nos. 2-10. Tatiana shows herself to a soldier guard.
MEASUREMENTS: Measure from first frame of picture (0+1 on footage counter) to 78 feet plus 11 frames (NICHOLAS and ALEXANDRA sitting on bed - at scene change) and delete 104 feet plus 7 frames (cut ends at scene change).

Reel 10AB:
DELETION: Part of Cut 22. Letter reading-to shorten cut of ALEXANDRA and group after "anything is possible".
MEASUREMENTS: Continue measurement to 1,277 feet plus 9 frames (group shot of family in room - 4 feet plus 10 frames from scene change) and delete 4 feet plus 10 frames (cut ends at scene change).

Reel 10AB:
DELETION: Cuts 30 and 31. Ipatier - after Yurovsky says "We're leaving" and NICHOLAS closes door, we see Yurovsky walking forward at foot of stairs.
MEASUREMENTS: Continue measurement to 1,335 feet plus 9 frames (door closing to black - 17 frames before scene change) and delete 27 feet plus 11 frames (cut ends at scene change).


The deletions total 16-1/2 minutes. Running time, without Intermission, is now 2 hours 49-1/2 minutes.

NOTE: These cuts have been designed for Optical composite prints only and will not necessarily work in magnetic-striped prints.






This last sentence pretty much seals the deal for me in implying that along with optical prints, there were at least a few magnetic-striped stereo prints of this title floating around---remembering, particularly, that the sound offset from the picture on magnetic prints was different than the sound offset on optical prints, and thus the footage and frame counts on an optical print would be different from those on a magnetic print.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 11:03 PM   
 By:   philiperic   (Member)

I respectfully disagree about BARABBAS -- maybe a guilty pleasure - the dubbing doesnt help - but I think that it is one of the better religious epics.

I saw N+A in roadshow in Chicago - still have the program - and it certainly sounded sterophonic to me. I also recall ads that mentioned stereo. IMDB lists it as having 6 track stereo ...



What I can remember about the roadshow version of BARABBAS was that it was loud and the sound was a lot better than what purports to be stereo on the DVD. As you stated the dubbing doesn't help. It's certainly a huge picture but for whatever reason it left me cold not caring about a single character. And I have the program to this one as well as N&A. N&A in stereo has been debated for a long time now. Supposedly there were stereo showings but the 'official' records show mono-even in blow up 70mm. So go figure. It wouldn't surprise me either way and I can only go by my experiences in theaters. I would not believe IMDB. I do know that for many years N&A had a cut version that made the rounds but the version on DVD and the TT Blu-ray is the full roadshow cut.

To me Solomon and Sheba is a lot more fun to watch than Barabbas. It wouldn't surprise me if TT releases both of them in blu-ray within the next 2 years or so. (no inside information here)


Paul
I agree that SOLOMON & SHEBA is definitely more fun than BARABBAS - Silvana Mangano doesnt have nearly as much fun as Gina Lollobrigida does although both get stoned in their respective movies.
After its initial roadshow run, S+S was cut by about 20 minutes and that was the version that was seen for many years. When it was first released on videocassette, it ran 119 minutes - I have that somewhere. Most of the missing footage involved Gina + Yul's love scenes. Finally the 139 min version came out on laserdisc. This would look spectacular in BR . Maybe they could locate some of the of the original footage with Tyrone Power. I can dream, cant !?

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2014 - 12:25 AM   
 By:   John B. Archibald   (Member)

There are shots of Power on YouTube. He looks great, though not as majestic as Brynner, and Power aged rather heavily during the late 50's, so that his face seemed craggier, a far cry from the pretty boy he was in the 30's.

I like BARABBAS better than S&S, though I might agree that S&S is more fun. BARABBAS, on the other hand, has a script by Christopher Fry, who also wrote much of BEN-HUR, and it shows, especially in the scene between BARABBAS and Apostle Peter at the end.

I have the original souvenir programs to both. Though I never saw either as a roadshow, I would enjoy it now. Looking back, this kind of film, which seemed often workmanlike in its day, now seems masterful, compared to the drek one sees on screen today.

Loved roadshows. Saw most of them, though I did miss a few. (Had no interest in THE ALAMO, CHITTY CHITTY BANG BANG, CINERAMA'S RUSSIAN ADVENTURE, CIRCUS WORLD, or MAN OF LA MANCHA. Although, I don't think I missed all that much. When I heard my older brother, a minor film critic in New York, had seen a screening of CHITTY CHITTY, I asked him what he thought, and he replied, "Change the C's to S's." Funny.)

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2014 - 2:05 AM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

NOTE: These cuts have been designed for Optical composite prints only and will not necessarily work in magnetic-striped prints.


This last sentence pretty much seals the deal for me in implying that along with optical prints, there were at least a few magnetic-striped stereo prints of this title floating around---remembering, particularly, that the sound offset from the picture on magnetic prints was different than the sound offset on optical prints, and thus the footage and frame counts on an optical print would be different from those on a magnetic print.



Wouldn't all of the 70mm blow-up prints of NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA have been magnetic-striped prints? Yet, most viewers of the 70mm version seem to have heard it in mono. Why would 35mm magnetic prints have necessarily been in stereo?

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2014 - 2:10 AM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

. . . has TT released any UA films ??


Twilight Time recently issued the UA films KHARTOUM and THUNDERBOLT AND LIGHTFOOT. The UA films BRING ME THE HEAD OF ALFREDO GARCIA and EQUUS are forthcoming.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2014 - 3:08 AM   
 By:   Les Jepson   (Member)

I just wish that the entire score could get an official release. Beyond that, I also wish that Twilight Time would think about adding "Solomon and Sheba" to their blu-ray release calendar. It may not be everyone's "cup of tea" but many of us really loved it and remember it especially fondly. It certainly is colorful, epic and deliciously campy with the unforgettable "orgiastic dance" that had this kid swooning over Gina Lollobrigida. More Nascimbene films in BD would be wonderful, as well, such as "The Vikings" or "Francis of Assisi" which would be a dreams-come-true for King Vidor and Michael Curtiz collectors. How about it TT?

Totally agree, Ed. But has TT released any UA films ?? Isnt it more likely to be be an MGM BR?

Another Mario Nascimbene scored epic that is more likely to be a TT release is the Columbia's BARABBAS(1962) - maybe the Roadshow version in 70mm + a longer running time.


I'm one of the 'few' that saw BARABBAS during its very short Roadshow run in NYC. From what I recollect the version that is available on DVD is the complete film-except for Overture and Entr'acte(same music as Intermezzo on the lp or cd). Of course the music cue leading into the intermission has been cut from the film. Other than the Roadshow trappings I believe the dvd is complete.


I agree. One of my favourite scenes from the roadshow run, the dialogue with Lazarus, was restored on the DVD. I'm amazed that it was ever cut.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2014 - 6:42 AM   
 By:   Joe Caps   (Member)

Hmmmm. Saw Nicholas and Alexandra in 35mm stereo in my small town of Elmira, N.Y.
If it rn stereo there, it should have been stereo anywhere. Later saw it in 70mm stereo in Syracuse, N.Y.

When I was releasing N and A on laserdisc for pioneer, it came to my attention that the BBC had the uncut stereo print, but they refused to lend it to us to cpy the stereo track.

I would love to see a remastered Barabbas as the current dvd color is terrible.

 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2014 - 7:03 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

To me Solomon and Sheba is a lot more fun to watch than Barabbas. It wouldn't surprise me if TT releases both of them in blu-ray within the next 2 years or so. (no inside information here)



This foxes me. 'Barabbas' is a good movie, well written, it makes sense, and has beautiful cinematography. It MEANS something, the repeated descents and ascents by the 'everyman' Barabbas in his spiritual pilgrimage to understanding. And the art direction is beautiful. Maybe people haven't been there in this cocooned age.

Maybe the reason you can't care about the characters is that really this is one of those 'inner' movies where the characters are allegorical and 'within'.

Whilst 'Solomon and Sheba' (one man's fun is another man's vomit) is an out and out garbage movie in all respects. ALL respects. Nascimbene's score is the only redeeming factor.


Much of the confusion is over the naming of tracks which appears to differ from release to release.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2014 - 8:09 AM   
 By:   paul rossen   (Member)

To me Solomon and Sheba is a lot more fun to watch than Barabbas. It wouldn't surprise me if TT releases both of them in blu-ray within the next 2 years or so. (no inside information here)



This foxes me. 'Barabbas' is a good movie, well written, it makes sense, and has beautiful cinematography. It MEANS something, the repeated descents and ascents by the 'everyman' Barabbas in his spiritual pilgrimage to understanding. And the art direction is beautiful. Maybe people haven't been there in this cocooned age.

Maybe the reason you can't care about the characters is that really this is one of those 'inner' movies where the characters are allegorical and 'within'.

Whilst 'Solomon and Sheba' (one man's fun is another man's vomit) is an out and out garbage movie in all respects. ALL respects. Nascimbene's score is the only redeeming factor.


Much of the confusion is over the naming of tracks which appears to differ from release to release.



Shouldn't fox you. To each his own. Re Barabbas. Anthony Quinn mumbles throughout the film. IMO a terrible performance. The editing is choppy to say the least. Dubbing is poor. Agree with Joe Caps that the DVD is terrible. I saw it under the very best conditions and didn't like it... Boring for an epic sized picture. Poorly received upon release. One of the shortest roadshow runs in NYC. As I said 'to each his own.'

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2014 - 9:24 AM   
 By:   Ed Lachmann   (Member)

I wonder if anyone could clarify this for me. The main reason I think that SOLOMON AND SHEBA could be a possible Twilight Time release is that it, along with KINGS OF THE SUN and TARAS BULBA, had the 20th Century Fox logo printed on the domestic DVD release box. I am also a fan of BARABBAS, which I hope get a proper BD release soon. I like it because it has that Italian neorealist Rossellini meets DeMille thing going on. It is the earthiest of all the epics with a stoning scene that is singularly horrifying. The menace of Jack Palance's Torvald is really effective, too. I'm a big fan of Palance, especially for his scenery chewing turn in THE SILVER CHALICE, which is a real hoot and long overdue on BD, as well. But, I do agree, S&S would be on my player far more often just because it is such fun and there is George Sanders, too. What a joy if TT would toss one of these classic epics somewhere into one of their five title release sets in the future. I'm certainly loving my KHARTOUM and BLUE MAX.

 
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