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Has this shipped?
As I said in my post a week ago, mine arrived then - shipped by Music Box.
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Posted: |
Jun 29, 2014 - 9:53 AM
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By: |
Graham Watt
(Member)
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I'm just writing this off the top of my head, in a streamofconsciousness way, so don't expect a thesis. This is "man in the pub" chat after all. No glancing at notebooks or anything!
So, I've played GOLDEN NEEDLES about a dozen times now, and I have to say "I'm lovin' it!" It did take a few spins before it finally worked its magic, but I find that that's the case with the majority of scores anyway, especially lengthy ones such as this which were never really prepared with a listener-friendly album mentality. That's why it's amazing it works as well as it does.
What only really became apparent after a few spins is the wealth of different styles on offer, even though it's all cut from the same cloth - so nothing jars. As Simon and others have mentioned, it seems to logically channel an ENTER THE DRAGON vibe, but it also takes the almost hard-driven rock approach of DIRTY HARRY in some tracks - really aggressive head-banging freakouts. But these are mere moments surrounded by much more. I was thinking at some points, "What's that reminding me of?", and in the end I decided that it displays a nod to Dave Grusin. First I thought THREE DAYS OF THE CONDOR, but then it came to me, no, it's actually THE YAKUZA. Now, that may seem an obvious route to go (pentatonic scale, fluttery oriental flutes, gongs etc) but the connection is perhaps most noticeable in the track "Felicity". When Bud Shanks' alto sax comes in, I was immediately reminded of THE YAKUZA's "20 Years Montage". It's silky and nostalgic and quite beautiful. So there ya go - Bud Shank on both (and on CONDOR too.)
So we've got the ENTER THE DRAGON meets DIRTY HARRY action. We've got the silky romantic moods (only rarely does Schifrin border on the dreaded "Charlie's Angels" melodic banality). The variations on the Love Theme are very nice and classy. And we've got quite a lot of "suspended tension" (again like the "anti-action" action music in Grusin's YAKUZA) which is kept interesting by long-time Schifrin collaborator Ray Brown on double bass - he keeps plucking away there just to keep things bubbling. And of course the percussion. Tablas fans have a lot to rejoice in here. It's almost a Roy Budd score, although Schifrin's trademark writing is everywhere.
Oh, and twice I noticed what might be an Erik Satie influence. Very odd to hear in such a score - a kind of lilting, impressionistic melody on something like the harpsichord. You'll hear it in Tracks 12 and 17. I don't know what that's trying to represent, but it adds diversity and colour to an already diverse and colourful score. JIM PHELPS - IS THAT A SATIE INFLUENCE? I TAKE IT YOU HAVE ACTUALLY GOT THIS SCORE???
Occasionally I felt it dragged, I must admit, especially with the two lengthy "Acupuncture" tracks, which are so similar they either nicely balance each other or cancel each other out. But as I've said before to the point of boredom (yours, not mine), you don't HAVE to listen to it all in the one go, and in fact it plays really well as two half-hour sessions. The bonus tracks of piano music can be relegated to another sitting, but they didn't offer much to my ears so might not get many future plays.
Okay then, so GOLDEN NEEDLES might not be Lalo Schifrin's masterpiece. It'll never be on anyone's list of Top 10 film scores of all time. But it's jolly good nonetheless. Vibrant, imaginative and actually interesting to listen to. It's a bit like Jerry Fielding's HUNTERS ARE FOR KILLING in that Fielding has more "important" scores under his belt than that one, just as Schifrin has justifiably better-known scores to his name than GOLDEN NEEDLES, but those two may be the ones I find myself reaching for the most.
Oh, the first part of Track 4 ("Flames/ Lin Toa") - the one containing the Rosenman tone pyramid (as described in the liner notes) - sounds damaged. Or maybe it's supposed to be that rough and harsh. Anyone notice that?
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As for Charlie Varrick....never seen it.
Surprising, Simon! You should definitely check this out, film- and score-wise.
IMHO one of the most important unreleased Schifrin scores.
simon, Varrick is not only one of the best unreleased Schifrin but probably one of the best thrillers of the 70s.
The Dialogue is a joy - and Joe don Baker is immense, one of the coldest and sadistic hitmen in movie history.
Andy robinsons scenes are just delicious.
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So good had to post it twice!
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It's more of a suspense score than an 'action' score in my opinion and I think that's why it takes more time to 'get into'.
I really should get hold of the DVD but I'm spending too much at the moment, having recently bought the DVDs for The Super Cops (disappointing) and Charlie Varrick (great!)
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Sorry simon i missed the bit where you said you were waiting for Varrick dvd, so now you have experienced Siegels lesser known but nonetheless superb thriller.
Needles samples sound very good. Iam severely tempted.
Really enjoyed the Schifrin concert I went to - gave me greater appreciation of themes i have always adored.
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Sorry simon i missed the bit where you said you were waiting for Varrick dvd, so now you have experienced Siegels lesser known but nonetheless superb thriller.
Needles samples sound very good. Iam severely tempted.
Really enjoyed the Schifrin concert I went to - gave me greater appreciation of themes i have always adored.
The Schifrin compilation set My Life In Music is well worth getting, although Schifrin fans may well have many of the pieces included on it already. I bought it for the two Charlie Varrick cues - I hope that score gets a full release at some point 
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There seemed to be a school of thought that felt after the box set that the full Varrick cd would follow. I think fans thought we might have it by now.
Needles sounds good score though, nevr seen the film.
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Is there any indication as to what the music sources are?
I agree it's always a little disappointing if some cues seem lower quality but I assume it's the limitation of the sources rather than a mixing or mastering error; and if it's a choice between a quality-flawed release and it never seeing the light of day, I'd go for the quality-flawed release any day. As long as it's something I want, of course.
I've ordered mine and am looking forward to its arrival.
Cheers
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Some tracks do sound better than others (as I posted when I first got my copy, one or two are mono), some are a little hissy. But it doesn't affect - for me - my listening enjoyment. As I recall, Aleph's own release of The Eagle Has Landed varied in quality from track to track, with one or two mono cues etc.
I imagine it comes down to what material is available and what shape it's in. Given how few scores from this era are currently being released I'll take what I can get, and I was quite happy with Golden Needles....
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It is a lot better than nothing.
Labels had to go into Schifrin's own collection for elements of a couple of other scores, which have expectedly been of varying quality, so maybe that was the case here as I certainly never expected the originals for this particular score to exist in some studio vault.
Quite right. And I hope there's a label looking as diligently for the tapes for Escape to Athena, which still hasn't seen a proper release apart from that rare Japanese LP. I'll take whatever they can get, thanks!
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With one or two exceptions, this thread seems to have fallen into the trap of talking about sound quality and the usual "When's CHARLEY VARRICK coming out?" speculation. Now, it goes without saying that anyone can post what they want here (I mean, I would also love CHARLEY VARRICK - and I mentioned a specific sound issue regarding Track 4 on GOLDEN NEEDLES), but does that mean that we've already finished discussing the merits or otherwise of the MUSIC on this release?
I suppose there could be many reasons for this -
1) Not many people have got it.
2) Some of those who have heard it are underwhelmed. I understand that too - I rarely post an "It's OK" comment.
3) People are too busy to think about what to write. Yes, I go through phases of that too.
Anyway, would anyone like to add to the musical discussion side of the release? How do you feel it fits into Schifrin's body of work from that period? If you were doing a "Buyer's Guide" (like FSM used to do with specific composers), would you give this 5 stars? 1 star? Why? Is that a Satie influence I hear there (JIM PHELPS - WAKE UP)?
I posted a rabbit earlier on, as you can see. I'm kind of running out of rabbits although I might still have a few waffles left. I'll just totally exhaust that last rabbit by saying that I'm glad I can still get real pleasure from hearing something as relatively "unimportant" (in the great scheme of things) as GOLDEN NEEDLES.
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I just posted a medium-sized rabbit, bit it didn't jump up to the top of the board. So I'll tickle its fluffy bits with a waffle and see if it does the trick... Come on bunny, let's see if this goes...
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I. Not many people have got it.
II. Some of those who have heard it are underwhelmed. I understand that too - I rarely post an "It's OK" comment.
III. People are too busy to think about what to write. Yes, I go through phases of that too.
Anyway, would anyone like to add to the musical discussion side of the release?
How do you feel it fits into Schifrin's body of work from that period?
¶ I ordered it and I will receive it in early July. Wait for it a little if you please, Mac.
The music clips sound like a cimbalom and tablas festival.
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In my case, although I heard the samples and enjoyed it's "ENTER THE DRAGON"-ness, I'm still waiting for the CD to hear the full thing.
But I agree, there's a "fickleness" to the way threads about new and exciting releases tend to quickly veer off talking about the score towards "what else I want" and sound quality, etc.
I'm as responsible as anyone.
We're spoilt. I'm sure many of us remember the days before Film Score Monthly when there were practically NO complete releases and most CDs were straight re-issues of LPs with poor quality reproductions of covers and no information and no liner notes whatsoever.
Relatively speaking, we can be like millionaires complaining about the price of milk some times.
(Please nobody take that as a literal comment about price: it's meant to express that these are abundant times for soundtrack collecting and we're doing pretty good really.)
I promise I'll comment more on the music when the CD has arrived.
Cheers
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¶ I ordered it and I will receive it in early July. Wait for it a little if you please, Mac.
The music clips sound like a cimbalom and tablas festival.
•••The leaning of the score based on the music clips is a blend of Magnum Force, Enter The Dragon, Charley Varrick, Harry in your Pocket (see the intimistic track "Felicity").
It even foreshadows Sudden Impact. Impressive.•••
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There are also - as Graham says - shadings of The Yakuza in its use of percussion and in the fact that in several places it isn't am out-and-out action score in the same way that Enter the Dragon was.
I can also sort of see why Graham thinks there is a 'Satie feel' to some cues, although I'm not sure that would have been intentional, and they do seem faintly contemplational/reflective in nature to me. There is a sense of oriental mystery about the music that I also got from The Yakuza....
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Posted: |
Jul 19, 2014 - 9:57 AM
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By: |
Graham Watt
(Member)
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I'm still giving this plenty of spins. Don't give up on it, people. It took its time to work its magic on me, but that's actually in its favour because it doesn't put all its cards on the table at once. I'm just really adding to and regurgitating my earlier rabbits here, but I really am impressed at the amount of different material there is on offer in this score. See earlier rabbits for details.
I'm also impressed that when I listen to it closely, there is rarely a wasted note. Everything seems to count - even when it seems that the score isn't really doing much at all. I wonder if that's because of Lalo Schifrin's jazz background. There's a real importance put on every note these musicians make. And they make some great sounds! Love that really rasping, growling brass in the Main Titles.
Rabbit regurgitation Part 3 (continued): Is it Lalo's best or most important score? No. Some of it sounds like TV music. There's a directness to a lot of it that puts me in mind of Gerald Fried's "fun but unsophisticated" MAN FROM UNCLE scores. Or why not Lalo's UNCLE scores? And if you're not paying attention AND you're hearing it on a crappy music system, you might be forgiven for thinking that the telly's on and it's STARSKY AND HUTCH. Just as well all that TV music was actually good!
I haven't seen GOLDEN NEEDLES, but I imagine it isn't as good a film as CITIZEN KANE, and it didn't call for the Bernard Herrmann approach-to-film-classics. Nor do I want to seek it out. Just by listening, I've created my own little series of exotic Hong-Kong-Phooey images in my head. As a stand-alone listen, GOLDEN NEEDLES has a lot going for it.
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