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 Posted:   Jun 14, 2014 - 2:53 AM   
 By:   CinemaScope   (Member)



Hang on, that's not the same recording, is it? Isn't the LP a re-recording? In any case you can't make those sorts of comparisons even if it were originally the same recording. There's no way of knowing the separate history of the master tapes, nor what kind of mastering has been performed.


I'm pretty sure that on this occasion the album (Cleopatra) is the original recording, which used to happen, like The Sand Pebbles album is also the original recording. I can tell you that with my terrible hi-fi kit the LP wouldn't have sounded anywhere near as good as the CD. It's funny that any CD more than ten years old is in urgent need of a re-master according to some posters, what once sounded great is now awful. I don't get it, I think most of the time it's the other way round, the older CD's don't have the sound jacked right up.

 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2014 - 2:35 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

I'm pretty sure that on this occasion the album (Cleopatra) is the original recording, which used to happen, like The Sand Pebbles album is also the original recording. I can tell you that with my terrible hi-fi kit the LP wouldn't have sounded anywhere near as good as the CD. It's funny that any CD more than ten years old is in urgent need of a re-master according to some posters, what once sounded great is now awful. I don't get it, I think most of the time it's the other way round, the older CD's don't have the sound jacked right up.




I have the 2CD and a very good Japanese pressing (well, it WAS, until the static...) of the LP.

They sound so similar they may well be from the same sessions, probably are. There are some differences though. Both Cleo's Barge and the Entry into Rome part 2 on the LP have a continuation of their very complex ostinatos to fade after the pieces would end abruptly on the OSTs.

This could be overlay work, but I did note that Cliff Eidelman's Varese Seattle reperformance of the march also has this continuation of the bass ostinato, so I reckon some MS of the sheets has this written in.

The cue, 'Caesar to Alexandria' is tacked onto the 'Fire Burns' cue. That might be an attempt to edit it into a more interesting piece ... or a 'Part 2' labelling mistake on a mix tape.

I could check with an A/B channel comparison on software to see if they're the same performance. Just off the top, I'd guess that they were recorded (like Rozsa's 1951 Quo Vadis? album) at the same time as the OST, but as album versions. The LP may also contain alternative takes.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2014 - 11:59 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

There are a couple of passages on the 2-CD set with some wow and flutter issues. I do think the LP sounds better than the CD. Was there ever a second LP, or was one ever planned?

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2014 - 6:12 AM   
 By:   Les Jepson   (Member)

The Sea Battle (Actium) is something you wouldn't forget in a hurry. I don't think I've heard anything comparable. The bowed strings and unusual percussion rhythms really do single it out.

Always liked Requiem, too. Much as it repeats, the image of the burning furniture pyramid and Burton's barely audible rambling with darting, swishing sword makes for a striking scene. It's one of the better moments in the movie.

I've only just realised the tail end of Moon Gate appears to have peripheral trumpets sounding in the film that aren't on the CD soundtrack. A cut to Rufio approaching Alexandria with Mithradates' reinforcements is where this overlap cue is established. Anyone know what happened there?


I love "Requiem", too. I think it was a wise decision to drown out Antony's eulogy to Caesar with crowd noise and North's cue, otherwise the dialogue would have been competing directly with one of Shakespeare's most famous speeches -- not recommended!

As to the chattering brass parts at the end of the "Moongate" cue (and in the film they actually start at dawn the morning after the battle, before the Rufio/Mithradates scene), I think it's generally assumed the brass overlays are lost. Much of this score is mixed from various separate recordings. Doesn't it say in the CD notes that there are thirty-odd in the "Overture" alone? Another cue missing from the CDs is the music for Antony's arrival at the Tarsus quayside for the party Cleo throws on her moored barge, plus some more fanfare stuff as he enters.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2014 - 6:54 AM   
 By:   CinemaScope   (Member)

I'd certainly buy a CD of the LP, which I don't think has ever had a proper (non-bootleg) release on CD. It would be interesting to hear the mix (done at the time). UMG must own this now, I don't know how this would sell, it would sell better as part of a two-fer. It'll probably never happen.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2014 - 8:45 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I'd certainly buy a CD of the LP, which I don't think has ever had a proper (non-bootleg) release on CD. It would be interesting to hear the mix (done at the time). UMG must own this now, I don't know how this would sell, it would sell better as part of a two-fer. It'll probably never happen.

This may be one of those cases where the album master is in better shape than the score master. "Vertigo" is another example like this.

 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2014 - 5:38 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

As to the chattering brass parts at the end of the "Moongate" cue (and in the film they actually start at dawn the morning after the battle, before the Rufio/Mithradates scene), I think it's generally assumed the brass overlays are lost. Much of this score is mixed from various separate recordings. Doesn't it say in the CD notes that there are thirty-odd in the "Overture" alone? Another cue missing from the CDs is the music for Antony's arrival at the Tarsus quayside for the party Cleo throws on her moored barge, plus some more fanfare stuff as he enters.

Thankyou, Les. It's strange the odd overlay can't be located when most are there. A bit of a pity although it hadn't dawned on me for years the cue on the CD had a missing element. I only noticed because the CD version became ingrained. It makes you wonder where and why parts of the score walked. Or, maybe the source was there but damaged beyond repair.

 
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