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 Posted:   Jul 11, 2014 - 10:23 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

x

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2014 - 11:22 AM   
 By:   JSDouglas   (Member)

My first experience with this music was an LP re-issue of the album recording which was a blind buy as I had not seen the film. It was also my first Alfred Newman purchase and provided the "gateway drug" to my interest in his music.

Right off the bat I was drawn to "Farewell to Diana" (aka "The Map of Jerusalem") for the haunting love theme. I also found "Entrance of Caligula" and "The Rescue of Demetrius" to be particularly exciting cuts (little did I know at the time that the rescue music was borrowed from Newman's previous score to THE HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME).

The album had so much going on that I enjoyed, I would typically play the whole thing through ("The Song of Resurrection" was my least favorite, however).

As time went on, I added the various original recording releases to my collection as well - but always hung on to that album version. I'm glad to hear it is still impressing listeners to this day.

 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2014 - 11:39 AM   
 By:   BornOfAJackal   (Member)

Never have seen the film, but I first caught the score on the Arista/Fox release from...I think '93. I knew Newman was good, but I was unprepared to be blown away by an all-time great.

I spent several years lamenting that I'd missed Varese's 50th Anniversary edition, until La-La Land Records--in one of the singular moves that have cemented their place as my favorite soundtrack label--rescued me from my oversight.

This score is an all-time top ten.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2014 - 3:28 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

J. S. --

You are aware, I assume, that THE ROBE's choral finale was also resurrected from HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME?

***

Unless I'm mistaken, to answer a question asked above, the Decca EGYPTIAN, like THE ROBE, was substantially, if not entirely, a re-recording. In recent years I've been overjoyed to see the expanded CD's culled from these two scores, both for the previously unavailable highlights and for the extra material included in previously abridged Decca selections. This includes both the OST CD's and the superb Morgan/Stromberg re-recording, (although my heart still sinks when I hear Marco Polo's sadly truncated version of the fantastic Pharoah's march).

That said, I treasure and will never relinquish my Varese CD's of the two original Decca LP's. Especially THE EGYPTIAN, which presents a very incomplete impression of the over-all score but which, because it emphasized the more romantic and melancholy passages, presents a superb mood of sustained emotion which is unsurpassable. (And also, because it gives us more of Newman's introductory use of Merit's love theme than he had room for in the actual movie. Plus which, the re-sequenced Herrmann cue from the seduction scene works better, I feel, than in the original screen order.)

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2014 - 3:28 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

SNAFU

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2014 - 4:35 PM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

SNAFU


Yes Preston.....Paul Sawtell's score for the 1945 Columbia film, SNAFU, with Robert Benchley, was nice, too. big grin

But we're talking about the greatness of Newman's THE ROBE here..... smile

 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2014 - 4:40 PM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

Preston, the Decca "The Egyptian" was culled mostly from the original soundtrack, according to Joe Caporiccio who has previously said it was confirmed to him by Ken Darby (IIRC).

While "The Robe" was a re-recording, "The Egyptian" sounds most like the original score to me as heard in the film.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2014 - 4:45 PM   
 By:   JSDouglas   (Member)

J. S. --

You are aware, I assume, that THE ROBE's choral finale was also resurrected from HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME?


Oh yes! And later returned in THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD.

It took me a while to catch on, but I soon became familiar with "Alfred Newman's Greatest Hits" as he returned again and again to favorite thematic material (like STREET SCENE).

 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2014 - 4:46 PM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

"The Rescue of Demetrius" was originally written for "The Hunchback of Notre Dame", then it was re-worked for "Prince of Foxes" and re-worked again for "The Robe."

The "Alleleuia" heard in the finale of "The Robe" was written by Ernest Toch at Newman's request and heard first in "The Hunchback of Notre Dame". It was again heard at the end of "The Song of Bernadette" and borrowed for a scene in the latter part of Tiomkin's "It's A Wonderful Life" before Newman re-worked it for "The Robe."

I recall that some of the music in "The Greatest Story Ever Told" had originally been written for "The Robe", but I don't recall it being the "Alleleuia".

 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2014 - 5:37 PM   
 By:   gsteven   (Member)

I recall that some of the music in "The Greatest Story Ever Told" had originally been written for "The Robe", but I don't recall it being the "Alleleuia".

That would be the Crucifixion music from THE ROBE used for the Raising of Lazarus in TGSET. Apparently, George Stevens decided to use this after Newman had composed original music for the scene (the film's First Act finale). Further insult was heaped Newman's way when Stevens tossed Newman's own Alleleuia (based on the Apostles' March) in favor of the Handel work. Stevens is said to have remarked, "My film will make Handel immortal!" or some such quote. Read Ken Darby's account in "Hollywood Holyland".

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2014 - 6:41 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

Manderley --

Funny thing, I remember when I was a little kid seeing a promo for an upcoming "The Early Show" broadcast of SNAFU, and asking my mother (a WW II Navy vet, as it happens) what the title meant. I don't recall her exact answer, but I'm sure she didn't give me a precise and complete definition.

I never have seen the movie. But of course, I'm not surprised that you have. You've seen everything.

PNJ

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2014 - 7:43 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

Ron --

Thanks for setting the record -- and me -- straight on the EGYPTIAN LP. I probably should have said in my post that I sometimes wondered if some of the tracks had been from the OST, but I never would have guessed that it was the lion's share. (Not to be confused with the one Horemheb kills.) We're all in your debt for passing on the Darby tidbit. THE EGYPTIAN is one of my probably five favorite film scores, and for my money there has never been enough recorded history or documentation about it.

If any part of the Decca disc was a re-recording, one would have to be the aforementioned march, whose instrumental sound on the album is quite different from that heard in the film. I've mentioned "Her Name Was Merit" and the garden seduction, but possibly the differentials in those two selections were attributable to editing, instead of recording. Perhaps not.

BTW, I've mentioned this before, but none of these wonderful CD's can quite replicate the thrill of sitting in a theater and hearing that six-channel main title come roaring out of the screen and searing the hairs on the back of your neck.

***

PERSONAL ASIDE:

I got an e-mail from Facebook informing me that Ron Pulliam had mentioned me in a Comment. I'll spare you the long story, but I had to undergo a lot of painstaking effort in order to access Facebook -- Yahoo trouble -- but finally I did find and read your Comment. (Have you guessed where this was heading?) That's right, it was your Comment about 50's TV cowboy actors -- including Wade Preston.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2014 - 7:50 PM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

as with Rozsa's El Cid the love theme is the best part for me.

So you're a fan of "Granada"? smile

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2014 - 2:58 AM   
 By:   Demetrius the Gladiator   (Member)

Manderley,

For whatever it may be worth, at first I thought it might be Royal Dano speaking Christ's last words, but then, I seem to recall reading somewhere a long time ago that it was indeed Cameron Mitchell. And even if I hadn't read it: what the hell, when have you ever been wrong?

PNJ

PS: Answer your e-mail!

smile


It was, indeed, Mitchell who, ironically, was a friend of Miklos Rozsa's, though the only Rozsa-scored film he ever appeared in was "Command Decision."

And, Christ's actual last words were, of course, "It is finished."


I recall that some of the music in "The Greatest Story Ever Told" had originally been written for "The Robe", but I don't recall it being the "Alleleuia".

That would be the Crucifixion music from THE ROBE used for the Raising of Lazarus in TGSET. Apparently, George Stevens decided to use this after Newman had composed original music for the scene (the film's First Act finale). Further insult was heaped Newman's way when Stevens tossed Newman's own Alleleuia (based on the Apostles' March) in favor of the Handel work. Stevens is said to have remarked, "My film will make Handel immortal!" or some such quote. Read Ken Darby's account in "Hollywood Holyland".


Funny, one would think that George Stevens thought his film was going to make Jesus immortal.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2014 - 6:05 AM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

LOL, Demetrius. And thanks for the better memory than mine about those famous last words.

Say, perhaps you (or somebody else on this thread) can tell me what is the meaning of the phrase "the Seven Last Words." I think I encountered it in a movie review by the late James Agee, in which he characterized Irene Dunne as "an actress who probably could keep her tongue in her cheek while uttering the Seven Last Words." Unless it takes seven words to say "it is finished" in Aramaic, I'm stumped.

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2014 - 7:41 AM   
 By:   JohnnyG   (Member)

LOL, Demetrius. And thanks for the better memory than mine about those famous last words.

Say, perhaps you (or somebody else on this thread) can tell me what is the meaning of the phrase "the Seven Last Words." I think I encountered it in a movie review by the late James Agee, in which he characterized Irene Dunne as "an actress who probably could keep her tongue in her cheek while uttering the Seven Last Words." Unless it takes seven words to say "it is finished" in Aramaic, I'm stumped.



Actually, they are statements, not words - seven statements that Jesus made while on the Cross:

1. "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing"
2. "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise" (to the crucified criminal who
expressed his faith in Him)
3. "Woman, this is your son!” / "This is your mother" (to Mary and Apostle John)
4. "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" (My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?)
5. "I am thirsty"
6. "It is finished", and
7. "Father, into Your hands I commit my spirit."

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2014 - 12:43 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

THANK YOU!

Much obliged.

(Just to be certain I'm now clear on this: Agee wasn't mistaken in calling the statements "words," the phrase is indeed "the seven last words," but it actually refers to the statements. Have I got that right?)

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2014 - 2:59 PM   
 By:   JohnnyG   (Member)

THANK YOU!

Much obliged.

(Just to be certain I'm now clear on this: Agee wasn't mistaken in calling the statements "words," the phrase is indeed "the seven last words," but it actually refers to the statements. Have I got that right?)



Absolutely!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2014 - 5:17 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

Finally I know, after all these years.

Thanks again!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2014 - 6:34 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

"The Rescue of Demetrius" was originally written for "The Hunchback of Notre Dame", then it was re-worked for "Prince of Foxes" and re-worked again for "The Robe."

The "Alleleuia" heard in the finale of "The Robe" was written by Ernest Toch at Newman's request and heard first in "The Hunchback of Notre Dame". It was again heard at the end of "The Song of Bernadette" and borrowed for a scene in the latter part of Tiomkin's "It's A Wonderful Life" before Newman re-worked it for "The Robe."

I recall that some of the music in "The Greatest Story Ever Told" had originally been written for "The Robe", but I don't recall it being the "Alleleuia".




Ron, Ernest Toch "composing" the Alleluia for the end of Hunchback has been discussed here before and I don't know if we will ever know the answer. I think John Morgan had some good background on it.

Some people said the Alleluia was in Toch's hand writing. Some suggested that Newman might have given Toch a rough sketch of it and then said to Toch: "here, do something with this."

Any comments from anyone?

 
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