 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Posted: |
Nov 17, 2014 - 11:46 AM
|
|
|
|
By: |
c8
(Member)
|
I guess I'm in the opposite camp as Justin.
Now, from a purely musical perspective, Yared does beat out Horner (though one of Yared's themes is by, coincidence or otherwise, identical to one in Horner's Jumanji). Yared wrote a score full of symphonic vibrancy, rich and deep orchestrations, unique and interesting textures, etc. Its a work I could envision being performed in the concert hall. It was right up there with the Newman, Rozsa, North, etc. epics of the past.
...and that's exactly the problem.
Troy is a bad movie that really only aspired to show Brad Pitt, Eric Bana, and Orlando Bloom in skintight clothing for 2 hours. The acting is atrocious (Pitt has a different accent in every scene if he has one at all), the story is robbed of anything that makes it interesting (how you can remove the Gods when we're talking about Achilles is beyond comprehension), and the movie is just drags on for far too long. Its a very bland, empty experience, devoid of anything that gives it scope (shooting locations aside).
Yared's score, over the whole of the movie, is meant to score a big, large scale epic, not the hollow shell Petersen made. Yared's score has scope that isn't matched on screen. Put up to Petersen's film, Yared's score does what Randy Newman's score did to Air Force One: it plays its too straight. In a thread long since gone, I said that Newman's score was so straight for such an over the top movie that it functioned not dissimilarly to Bernstein's Airplane. Goldsmith had his tongue firmly in cheek with his replacement score and gave an over the top movie the over the top bravado it needed.
While Troy isn't meant to be over the top, it just is by the way Peterson put it together. Then you have Yared's straight, big score on top of this already ridiculous movie...and the whole thing becomes utterly farcical. Horner may have been blunt when he said it was like molasses on top of the movie...and perhaps he could have been kinder by not going on and on and on (and as a Horner defender, even I found the bit about The English Patient unnecessary)...but his remarks about what Yared's score did to the movie really sum this problem up.
Horner's score fixes the problem by cutting out Yared's scope (especially with the choir) and bombast and limiting the score to something that accentuates what's on the screen...nothing more, nothing less. The music is quality on its own and actually plays nicely through its runtime. But its dramatically more restrained than Yared's so as not to impact the movie more than it has to.
It should be noted that the issue here is not whether Yared's score would have improved the movie. It wouldn't have. It made it worse. The movie was too damaged to begin with and the fault lies solely at the doorstep of Peterson who was either too arrogant or too insulated to realize it until far too late in the post production process to do much of anything. Petersen directed Yared to write the score that belonged to the movie he thought he made, not the movie he did make. Horner was brought in to write the score that didn't inflict any further damage to something that was already beyond repair. Horner did his job with aplomb. And frankly, so did Yared. Its Petersen that failed everybody.
So at the end of the day the debate will rage on for some time to come. I can't believe its been 10 years since Troy...that's just crazy. I will say Troy was the first album of Horner's, aside from Star Trek II, that I picked up. I was hooked and to this day I still love the music. There's a lot to love...and I think James Southall's review sums up what I love about it: its Horner painting in broad strokes. No its not perfect and yes, the quotes from Britten and Vaughn Williams are there. But I still love it just the same. And I will keep on loving it just the same.
PS: Will people PLEASE stop saying Horner ripped off Stargate when in fact Arnold just used Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis note for note himself.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Posted: |
Nov 17, 2014 - 12:15 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
Octoberman
(Member)
|
You can find Horner's interview on iTunes. Personally, Horner never has anything nice to say, not even recognizing his fellow composers when he won the Oscar for "Titanic", slamming Abbey Road for he referred as their "outdated recording equipment" when he was recording "Aliens" at Abbey Road (Mr. Horner, you shouldn't diss Abbey Road). I think he's an arrogant, conceited fool. And they had the audacity to put Horner assailing the recording equipment on the behind the scenes featurette on "Aliens". As the cliche goes, if you have nothing nice to say, don't say it all!
Unfortunately, that's exactly what a hack would do.
(Yes, he's a hack--albeit the luckiest hack in the world.  )
PS. Yared's is excellent in comparison, if for no other reason than that it's not just another "Hornering" of pre-existing temp tracks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Have your opinions on either score changed since then?
Yes. I was initially impressed with the Yared score, not least because it was a Yared score and I didn't expect something so powerful from him.
But it didn't take many plays before I got bored with it..
A rare point of agreement!
Its an impressive score but it became overbearing (or bombastic) after repeated listens.
I have a very nice promo copy , complete with artwork for trade.
combrm@yahoo.com
bruce
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: |
Feb 4, 2017 - 2:15 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
KevinSmith
(Member)
|
I guess I'm in the opposite camp as Justin.
Now, from a purely musical perspective, Yared does beat out Horner (though one of Yared's themes is by, coincidence or otherwise, identical to one in Horner's Jumanji). Yared wrote a score full of symphonic vibrancy, rich and deep orchestrations, unique and interesting textures, etc. Its a work I could envision being performed in the concert hall. It was right up there with the Newman, Rozsa, North, etc. epics of the past.
...and that's exactly the problem.
Troy is a bad movie that really only aspired to show Brad Pitt, Eric Bana, and Orlando Bloom in skintight clothing for 2 hours. The acting is atrocious (Pitt has a different accent in every scene if he has one at all), the story is robbed of anything that makes it interesting (how you can remove the Gods when we're talking about Achilles is beyond comprehension), and the movie is just drags on for far too long. Its a very bland, empty experience, devoid of anything that gives it scope (shooting locations aside).
Yared's score, over the whole of the movie, is meant to score a big, large scale epic, not the hollow shell Petersen made. Yared's score has scope that isn't matched on screen. Put up to Petersen's film, Yared's score does what Randy Newman's score did to Air Force One: it plays its too straight. In a thread long since gone, I said that Newman's score was so straight for such an over the top movie that it functioned not dissimilarly to Bernstein's Airplane. Goldsmith had his tongue firmly in cheek with his replacement score and gave an over the top movie the over the top bravado it needed.
While Troy isn't meant to be over the top, it just is by the way Peterson put it together. Then you have Yared's straight, big score on top of this already ridiculous movie...and the whole thing becomes utterly farcical. Horner may have been blunt when he said it was like molasses on top of the movie...and perhaps he could have been kinder by not going on and on and on (and as a Horner defender, even I found the bit about The English Patient unnecessary)...but his remarks about what Yared's score did to the movie really sum this problem up.
Horner's score fixes the problem by cutting out Yared's scope (especially with the choir) and bombast and limiting the score to something that accentuates what's on the screen...nothing more, nothing less. The music is quality on its own and actually plays nicely through its runtime. But its dramatically more restrained than Yared's so as not to impact the movie more than it has to.
It should be noted that the issue here is not whether Yared's score would have improved the movie. It wouldn't have. It made it worse. The movie was too damaged to begin with and the fault lies solely at the doorstep of Peterson who was either too arrogant or too insulated to realize it until far too late in the post production process to do much of anything. Petersen directed Yared to write the score that belonged to the movie he thought he made, not the movie he did make. Horner was brought in to write the score that didn't inflict any further damage to something that was already beyond repair. Horner did his job with aplomb. And frankly, so did Yared. Its Petersen that failed everybody.
So at the end of the day the debate will rage on for some time to come. I can't believe its been 10 years since Troy...that's just crazy. I will say Troy was the first album of Horner's, aside from Star Trek II, that I picked up. I was hooked and to this day I still love the music. There's a lot to love...and I think James Southall's review sums up what I love about it: its Horner painting in broad strokes. No its not perfect and yes, the quotes from Britten and Vaughn Williams are there. But I still love it just the same. And I will keep on loving it just the same.
PS: Will people PLEASE stop saying Horner ripped off Stargate when in fact Arnold just used Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis note for note himself.
To be fair, Gabriel Yared had a lot more time than James did writing the replacement score.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
And just think, Yared's rejected score was featured in an issue of F.S.M. (replete with some sheet music)! I doubt they will be doing an article on Horner's score on an online issue.
The music was transcribed by me and approved by Yared. As far as I know there isn't any official music in printed form or otherwise from the score, sadly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
(but, point taken) 
