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I suppose so, but I think it is a far greater loss when the majority of a composer's output is lost and/or unavailable. This is coming from someone who who has lots of Goldsmith, albeit all dating from his pre-ponytail period.
Of course, most (if not all) of Jerry Goldsmith's "lost" scores date pre-ponytail...so you should feel the loss more. I do agree with you there are composers with music in far more tragic states of loss than Goldsmith.
Yavar
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The big question from me is whether Goldsmith's score to the Barnaby Jones pilot has survived. It's a fantastic score loaded with variations of the main theme. I am very surprised it hasn't been released yet, which makes me think it's lost...
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I love the Barnaby Jones theme and I share your concern, David. Let's hope there's a Barnaby Jones release from one of our beloved specialty labels in our future.
I wonder if it helps at all that the complete TV series is being released on DVD soon...at the very least that'll help people like Justin Boggan to figure out roughly how much music was written for the show.
Yavar
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Oh, don't wait for me -- I have no plans at this time to watch the series. But feel free yourself. ;-)
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Oh, don't wait for me -- I have no plans at this time to watch the series. But feel free yourself. ;-)
If I ever get that much time I will, but I doubt that'll happen. I just remembered how much time you spent watching all of that MacGuyver! 
Yavar
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Maybe they don't actually *have* the written score?
It seems that they were willing enough to loan the written scores for The Blue Max, or else Tadlow had to reconstruct that one...but if they were willing and able to reconstruct that, why couldn't they just do the same for a complete The Chairman? Perhaps it was more edited/fragmented in the film compared to say, The Salamander?
Anyway, my completely uninformed guess is that Fox said "no" because they couldn't locate the written score -- at least not easily enough. What a shame! At least there's more hope in regards to the completely-unreleased Goldsmith scores Black Patch and Face of a Fugitive -- James himself said that he was interested to do them and that the Academy had sketches.
Yavar
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I'm not sure what's going on with "Barnaby Jones". Duane Tatro told me he didn't score some or most the episodes yet he's credited. I'm wondering if maybe they simply tracked score from compsoers from earlier episodes and then credited them for the score probably based upon how much they used. I plan to talk with him more about it later.
Plus even if I wanted to go through the show, there has yet to be an upload of every episode to Youtube; I suspect some episodes are missing. And then some have the end credits cut off, suggesting some people are getting their unlawful loads from the same sources, so I have yet to complete the composer/episode listing I have going, so I wouldn't be able to really tell you how much scoring there is. I could probably tell you how much the pilot has, though.
http://tvscoring.150m.com/Barnaby.html
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Well, we have fresh confirmation from Intrada that the complete In Harm's Way is still lost. I'm sure they did a thorough search before their new reissue.
The good news is that they found three tracks originally intended for the LP (two of which are source music and one of which is a previously unreleased orchestral score cue!) So we have a slightly expanded In Harm's Way, in much better sound to boot!
But I do have considerably less hope now that the complete score will ever be found, unfortunately.
Yavar
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Maybe they don't actually *have* the written score?
The Margaret Herrick library has enough to put it together. (For "music sketches" here I read "eight-stave short score".)
THE CHAIRMAN -- music sketches
J. Lee Thompson; 1969 (20th Century-Fox, 1969)
contains:
1-1 "Main Title," 9 pages;
1-2 "Old Times," 1 page;
3-1 "Goodbye For Now," 4 pages;
3-1a "The City," 4 pages;
4-2 "A Late Visitor," 12 pages;
4-3 "The Airport," 8 pages;
5-1 "The Schools," 5 pages;
5-2 "The Red Guard," 5 pages;
7-1 "Hathaway's Arrival," 6 pages;
7-3 "The Bottle," 4 pages;
8-2 "The Students," 9 pages;
9-1 "The Laboratory," 13 pages;
10-1 "Hathaway's Plans (part 1)," 5 pages;
10-1 "Hathaway's Plans (part 2)," 8 pages;
10-2 "Hathaway's Flight," 20 pages;
11-1 "The Mine," 9 pages;
11-2 "The Russians Are Coming," 6 pages;
12-1 "Countdown," 4 pages;
12-2 "The Bomb," 2 pages;
12-3 "End Title," 3 pages;
12-3 "End Credits," 2 pages;
"The Chairman Love Theme," 4 pages [not in the hand of Jerry Goldsmith]
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Posted: |
Jan 17, 2016 - 9:40 PM
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By: |
Tadlow
(Member)
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Maybe they don't actually *have* the written score?
The Margaret Herrick library has enough to put it together. (For "music sketches" here I read "eight-stave short score".)
THE CHAIRMAN -- music sketches
J. Lee Thompson; 1969 (20th Century-Fox, 1969)
contains:
1-1 "Main Title," 9 pages;
1-2 "Old Times," 1 page;
3-1 "Goodbye For Now," 4 pages;
3-1a "The City," 4 pages;
4-2 "A Late Visitor," 12 pages;
4-3 "The Airport," 8 pages;
5-1 "The Schools," 5 pages;
5-2 "The Red Guard," 5 pages;
7-1 "Hathaway's Arrival," 6 pages;
7-3 "The Bottle," 4 pages;
8-2 "The Students," 9 pages;
9-1 "The Laboratory," 13 pages;
10-1 "Hathaway's Plans (part 1)," 5 pages;
10-1 "Hathaway's Plans (part 2)," 8 pages;
10-2 "Hathaway's Flight," 20 pages;
11-1 "The Mine," 9 pages;
11-2 "The Russians Are Coming," 6 pages;
12-1 "Countdown," 4 pages;
12-2 "The Bomb," 2 pages;
12-3 "End Title," 3 pages;
12-3 "End Credits," 2 pages;
"The Chairman Love Theme," 4 pages [not in the hand of Jerry Goldsmith]
I did know of these....that is why I applied to Fox Music to get their permission to get copies made...but they refused. But I will try again...
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Good luck, amigo. Let us know how you get on.
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It is so great to know that you still haven't given up, James! At some point might you just break down and have it reconstructed as you did with Quo Vadis when you couldn't get access to the written music, or is it just too frustrating that it exists in its original form but Fox won't grant you access for some reason?
Yavar
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It is so great to know that you still haven't given up, James! At some point might you just break down and have it reconstructed as you did with Quo Vadis when you couldn't get access to the written music, or is it just too frustrating that it exists in its original form but Fox won't grant you access for some reason?
Yavar
You could crowd-restore the dots, of course. Big ask, I know...
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That makes sense. Thanks for the reply James.
Yavar
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He saved some of his scores which the studios didn't, but obviously not all. And sometimes he only saved part of the score, which is why we have the abbreviated stereo program of Rio Lobo but the full score only available in mono from the studio.
John Williams is an even more famous composer and it's not as if he saved everything of his either. And he's much less prolific so there's considerably less he would have to have saved.
Also my post here is just about recordings; the written scores do survive for many of these, such as Black Patch, Face of a Fugitive, and The Chairman.
Yavar
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Had to update this thread to remove the following from the first post:
"Chinatown (1974) -- Everyone was upset when Varese apparently chose to reissue the existing album rather than expanding it to the complete score, but Jeff Bond more recently commented on this board that he'd heard the complete score was in fact lost. (Yes, again there is a footwarmer with mediocre sound quality.)"
I wonder now if Jeff was pulling our leg, because he wrote the liner notes for Intrada's new issue of the score. While admittedly the complete score didn't come from perfect sources (a mono DAT saved by Goldsmith itself) it is the complete score in acceptable/releasable sound quality. Not even from stems or anything (like Seconds). In any case, I'm glad the above turned out to be wrong!
Yavar
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