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Posted: |
Jan 24, 2018 - 7:01 PM
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By: |
bobbengan
(Member)
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As much as I respect Roger's opinion (and would under normal circumstances agree that suite-like symphonic poems are best heard as the composers intended), allow me to offer something of a dissenting opinion on the matter.
Personally I greatly enjoy the chopped up "film score" album, not the least because it allows one to even-better appreciate the intricacies of the overall work.
For example, there's a cue called "Deep" that, despite running a mere 55 seconds, is just so fascinating, unique and original (sounding like the closest think Scott ever wrote to a Bernard Herrmann cue in my opinion) - and in the context of the full symphonic poem it just gets lost and buried; I couldn't even tell you what movement it crops up in. Plus other cues, like the "End Credits" for example, feel so much better-placed as though real score cues, with that piece's glorious send off really feeling like the end title summation of an epic score - which isn't how it plays in the full suite.
It's all great music either way, but speaking personally I don't like to merely listen to Scott's music - I like to turn it over in my mind, study it like a very rich painting or piece of writing, and think about its individual proponents that make it so good - much more easily done with the "score" album versus the symphonic poem.
Plus, you get two utterly arresting piano renditions of the main theme, not heard of the suite-based album, performed by John himself. So there's that, too.
Just my two cents!
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Posted: |
Jan 24, 2018 - 10:15 PM
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By: |
bobbengan
(Member)
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Truly enjoyable bobb. Thank you for sharing. I noted that Mr. Scott called this score his technically and inspirational best. Does he still feel this way?
So nice seeing Christopher Gunning as well. I once emailed Mr. Gunning with a question about one of his scores and promptly received a very nice response. Just a little tidbit.
Gunning's not only an incredibly gifted composer but also quite a hoot - some of the stuff he writes on Facebook is quite a hoot. I've tried to get John himself to join, but at 87 years young, I'm sure it doesn't shock anyone to hear that he couldn't give a rat's ass about social media...
Anyway, John's something of a tough self-critic and I find it odd what scores of his he feels are actually good. I've noticed a trend where the more technically-adept the music, the better he regards it, whereas stuff like KING KONG LIVES or WALKING THUNDER or FAR FROM HOME are "nonsense" with "nothing too them" - his exact words, not mine, and I certainly couldn't agree less with that assessment. Even HAREM, which I truly do believe might be his masterpiece, just "sounds like a job" to him. Insanity!
Conversely, he thinks BLACK RAINBOW (very dissonant and atonal dark action stuff) and BILLY TWO HATS (dissonant in the prickly, moody 70's Goldsmithian way, with abundant guitar passages) are much finer and more worthy works. I have both of these courtesy of John himself and they definitely aren't works I revisit nearly as often as the stuff mentioned elsewhere in this thread.
Likewise his opera, a few of his string quartets, saxophone concerto (with himself playing sax) and a concert work called "Fear! for Orchestra" are very dissonant scores that I can't fully invest myself in, though I feel lucky to own them and feel I'm possibly among the only ears to ever befall them who were not in the room when they were recorded!
So to answer your question, I'm not sure if he thinks JULES VERNE is his best or not. I think it was an opportunity to write a large scale, evocative tone poem for huge orchestral forces. He savored the opportunity, milked it, and moved on.
Per his exact words, the best thing he's ever written is his still-in-process epic cantata for choir, soloists and orchestra - which he hopes to record sooner than later. I've heard a mock-up of it in Logic but, being a non-musician myself, couldn't make a ton of sense of it - A piano playing ALL LINES of melody and activity. I'm sure someone who could read music would have made a better audience than I.
I think I shared it before elsewhere, but here's a short six-minute excerpt from his unreleased GUITAR CONCERTO, "CELTIC KINGDOMS", dating from either 2006 or 2008. This is from the second movement and might be one of the most romantic melodies of his entire career, it just takes my breath away. He would have been around 77 years old or so when he wrote it - Can you think of any other composers writing at this degree of inspiration at that age? He didn't release it because of major issues he takes with the guitar player, whom he feels froze up during the session. I'm sure there might be issues with the more difficult passages in the third movement but to my ears I cannot detect anything "wrong" and certainly not "bad". Regardless, the music itself is MARVELOUS:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZYq4PmhB48axtdSWwAGOj0WxibEbBJtK
Enjoy - Download quickly while you can, I can't leave files on my G-Drive forever sadly.
I do have a funny story about his WARM BLOODED SEA Cousteau score too, while we're talking about his concert work. There's a cue from that score I just adore and listen to endlessly when I'm writing called "Right Whales of Patagonia", which has this amazing, long-lined, incredibly gentle and evocative melody for low strings, the kind of melody and orchestration only John can write, and a bit I always thought belonged in the concert hall as its own little self-contained piece. Well, somehow a mock-up of his as-yet unrecorded VIOLA CONCERTO ended up on my computer and sure enough the second movement, "Seascape With Whales", is an expansion of that exact piece - so apparently John shared my sentiment!
It was such a treat to hear that music, counterpoint and all, as transcribed for piano. Somehow it gives a greater insight into what this man's wonderful musical imagination is like before it's ever actually "played" for the first time.
Very interesting and illuminating!
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Keep in mind that Odyssey of the Belem and L'Expedition Jules Verne are the same score. Only it appears no musical understanding went into the latter. Odyssey was assembled by John and plays as a much more coherent experience. When I compared the two, I was amused to see one striking case where a cue ended with the first chord of the main theme because it was composed to flow into the theme itself...with said theme being located on the CD two tracks earlier!
L'Expedition Jules Verne (2 CDs) plays 116 minutes. The Odyssey of the Belem (1 CD) is half the length at only 60 minutes. Is there a good comparative review of the two?
I've gone through both with a fine tooth comb. All of John Scott's score is on the Odyssey CD. What's not there is all the native source music (which John may not have had anything to do with) and a piano demo he did.
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Gunning's not only an incredibly gifted composer but also quite a hoot - some of the stuff he writes on Facebook is quite a hoot. I've tried to get John himself to join, but at 87 years young, I'm sure it doesn't shock anyone to hear that he couldn't give a rat's ass about social media...
I'm going to take your word for it. I've been driven away from film composer's social media accounts where they spew absolute mental garbage; hatred, Leftist talking points, conspiracy theories, letting other nutjobs post things on their pages, etc. They may be nice people, relatively speaking, and talented composers, but their brains just shit all over the internet when they get a social media account. Not saying that's what Gunning is doing, but I'd rather not find out if that's the case; I'd rather just know him for his musical capabilities.
Anyway, John's something of a tough self-critic and I find it odd what scores of his he feels are actually good. I've noticed a trend where the more technically-adept the music, the better he regards it, whereas stuff like KING KONG LIVES or WALKING THUNDER or FAR FROM HOME are "nonsense" with "nothing too them" - his exact words, not mine, and I certainly couldn't agree less with that assessment. Even HAREM, which I truly do believe might be his masterpiece, just "sounds like a job" to him. Insanity!
I've noticed this, too, from interviews.
He's too tough on himself and too dismissive, I'd say. We have composers who come out of universities trained to compose, studied under good composers, then crank out shit (and don't tell me every single instance is a case of doing what they were told; aimed at people in general, not any specific board member.
To me, Scott's opinion on his work is like arguing which part of the Mona Lisa was the best done.
Conversely, he thinks BLACK RAINBOW (very dissonant and atonal dark action stuff) and BILLY TWO HATS (dissonant in the prickly, moody 70's Goldsmithian way, with abundant guitar passages) are much finer and more worthy works. I have both of these courtesy of John himself and they definitely aren't works I revisit nearly as often as the stuff mentioned elsewhere in this thread.
I'll certainly be checking out that Goldsmiht-ish one. Curiosity only kills cats, after all. Though I think sometimes I won't survive sampling Junkie XL efforts.....
As for getting him online, he may not be interested in it for personal gain, but I hope he'd appreciate our enjoyment over it; even just a blog page with entries where he talks about his works and keeps people up-to-date would be nice, since it appears he does next to nothing with his personal website anymore.
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