Just got the CD. It's worth every penny. My only gripe is it doesn't have "Arrivederci" (Don Marino Barreto Jr.) in it.
The "Arrivederci" song is very effective in the film, but unfortunately it was not on the master tapes which we had received from Sugar. There were a few other songs on the Sugar tapes which strangely had nothing do to with the movie and also nothing with Piccioni. But "Arrivederci" - the only song which is indeed heard in the movie and plays an important part there - was not among them. I had also wondered about this. On the other hand, even though it had been on Sugar´s tapes, probably additional licensing fees to another party would have had to be paid to use it.
The "Arrivederci" song is very effective in the film, but unfortunately it was not on the master tapes which we had received from Sugar. There were a few other songs on the Sugar tapes which strangely had nothing do to with the movie and also nothing with Piccioni.
Was there any hint of who the musicians were on the master tapes?
The "Arrivederci" song is very effective in the film, but unfortunately it was not on the master tapes which we had received from Sugar. There were a few other songs on the Sugar tapes which strangely had nothing do to with the movie and also nothing with Piccioni.
Was there any hint of who the musicians were on the master tapes?
No indications at all! This was an extra tape besides the ones with the regular Piccioni score. It also contained a nice arrangement of the DOLCI INGANNI main theme - but also without any indication by whom it had been done - sung by Nilla Pizzi which had been released on a Titanus 45rpm single in 1961. It is Tld 5008 in this list: http://librarymusicthemes.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=221
We really would have liked to use this song also for the CD, but unfortunately Sugar didn´t have the rights for it and so we couldn´t. All the other tracks on that extra tape were 7 or 8 Italian songs from around 1960 (but not "Arrivederci"!) with various singers. So either more songs had originally been planned for use in the picture itself, but were then discarded, or there had been a plan maybe for a 10" disc with all these songs besides the Nilla Pizzi one which then never came about. Difficult to tell and Sugar also knew nothing about this tape. But as I said: There were no infos at all about musicians or singers. But I have known the Nilla Pizzzi song for a long time and so that track was very easy to identify.
Where did they find the master tapes? What happened to them during all these years? I'm wondering why it took almost 60 years to get the soundtrack released.
Where did they find the master tapes? What happened to them during all these years? I'm wondering why it took almost 60 years to get the soundtrack released.
It´s quite simple: The master tapes have not been found just now or have ever been lost, but throughout all these decades they have always been part of the old CAM catalogue which is nowadays managed by Sugar. This just means that till now no other label has ever been interested to release this title on CD and had therefore also not reserved it in the CAM catalolgue. And it is also clear why: Because you won´t earn any profit if you produce a CD with such an old, for most collectors rather unknown score from 1960 of which you won´t sell hundreds of copies. These are just the hard facts of the soundtrack market nowadays which you have to consider.
I've spent some uncomfortable moments with perfectly friendly people who, for example knowing that I like quite a lot of jazz, sit me down in a chair and say, "Now what do you think of THIS?" - and I feel obliged to say, "Wow man - love it!" when I really mean "Interesting - let me find my own way on that" ... I shall actually be in Valencia in a few short weeks, and will be dropping by the Rosebud shop for a wee chat with whoever's there (Juan, Pedro...). Let's see how the conversation flows. Those guys are great.
So I have ended up with an enormously long disjointed rabbit. That's real life here, right in front of your computer-glazed eyes. When I'm in Valencia, I'll be sure to mention I DOLCI INGANNI, Piero Piccioni, and my sexual hang-ups (which is what it all boils down to in the end surely).
Better put a smiley on this.
The FSM message board awaits the status report on Graham Watt's trek to Valencia & Rosebud visit.
Shall we place bets on whether Graham acquired Saimel's I Dolci Inganni (& subsequently his 1st ever album of Piccioni music) or didn't?
Where did they find the master tapes? What happened to them during all these years? I'm wondering why it took almost 60 years to get the soundtrack released.
It´s quite simple: The master tapes have not been found just now or have ever been lost, but throughout all these decades they have always been part of the old CAM catalogue which is nowadays managed by Sugar. This just means that till now no other label has ever been interested to release this title on CD and had therefore also not reserved it in the CAM catalolgue. And it is also clear why: Because you won´t earn any profit if you produce a CD with such an old, for most collectors rather unknown score from 1960 of which you won´t sell hundreds of copies. These are just the hard facts of the soundtrack market nowadays which you have to consider.
While Stefan states that (in the case of this particular title) the master tape situation can be explained simply, I feel that filmscoremonthlyfan's questions probe into the bigger picture (so-to-speak) on why these tapes which have never been missing have not been tapped into between 1961 and 2016. Are human beings with high standards regarding music in such scarce supply on planet Earth that not one single record producer all throughout these ensuing decades since 1960 has ever sought to present Piccioni's music for I Dolci Inganni on any album until Saimel's 2017 production?
filmscoremonthlyfan's position (as with many of us other Piccioni fans) is that this soundtrack should have been released long before 2017
[for example, how many years has wayoutwest been waitin' for this Piccioni score?]
Regarding the credits on this Saimel release, I have some questions:
Since Valentina Piccarreda is given special thanks as an international coordinator for Gruppo Sugar, does this imply that Daniela Durazzini no longer functions in this capacity with respect to the C.A.M. catalogue?
No conductor is mentioned - only that Piccioni composed the music. However, inside the CD booklet, the notes state that Piccioni held lengthy recording sessions. Does this imply that Piccioni was indeed the conductor - or was somebody else conducting?
Also, would this album be the first time that Juan Angel Saiz did his own sound restoration and album mastering? Why was Claudio Fuiano not involved with this production and these sound elements?
Where did they find the master tapes? What happened to them during all these years? I'm wondering why it took almost 60 years to get the soundtrack released.
It´s quite simple: The master tapes have not been found just now or have ever been lost, but throughout all these decades they have always been part of the old CAM catalogue which is nowadays managed by Sugar. This just means that till now no other label has ever been interested to release this title on CD and had therefore also not reserved it in the CAM catalolgue. And it is also clear why: Because you won´t earn any profit if you produce a CD with such an old, for most collectors rather unknown score from 1960 of which you won´t sell hundreds of copies. These are just the hard facts of the soundtrack market nowadays which you have to consider.
While Stefan states that (in the case of this particular title) the master tape situation can be explained simply, I feel that filmscoremonthlyfan's questions probe into the bigger picture (so-to-speak) on why these tapes which have never been missing have not been tapped into between 1961 and 2016. Are human beings with high standards regarding music in such scarce supply on planet Earth that not one single record producer all throughout these ensuing decades since 1960 has ever sought to present Piccioni's music for I Dolci Inganni on any album until Saimel's 2017 production?
filmscoremonthlyfan's position (as with many of us other Piccioni fans) is that this soundtrack should have been released long before 2017
[for example, how many years has wayoutwest been waitin' for this Piccioni score?]
Seems like an eon ha ha I am still pretty new to collecting and enjoying music from various composers compared to some on this board. Sometime between 2004-2005 think it was when I really started to get hooked on starting to explore Italian composers, it was hard to move away from exploring so many of Morricones scores.
Remembering listening to Il Disprezzo samples on Movie Grooves really loved that web site it was full with so many samples, stupidly I never got around to picking up a copy of Il disprezzo before it sold out, really glad that I managed to track a copy down some years later I'm still really hooked on that one.
Fast forward never thought that I DOLCI INGANNI would ever get released I'm still slowly digesting it, more and more of it is seeping in. Already loving so much of it things get even more slinky in the second half.
Regarding the credits on this Saimel release, I have some questions:
Since Valentina Piccarreda is given special thanks as an international coordinator for Gruppo Sugar, does this imply that Daniela Durazzini no longer functions in this capacity with respect to the C.A.M. catalogue?
Yes, Valentina Piccarreda has replaced Daniela Durazzini already in Autumn 2017. For the last Lavagnino CD on Alhambra with FALSTAFF we had also already worked with Signora Piccarreda.
No conductor is mentioned - only that Piccioni composed the music. However, inside the CD booklet, the notes state that Piccioni held lengthy recording sessions. Does this imply that Piccioni was indeed the conductor - or was somebody else conducting?
The conductor for I DOLCI INGANNI is not known at all. There is no credit for any conductor - neither in the film´s credits nor on the CAM recording sheets.
Also, would this album be the first time that Juan Angel Saiz did his own sound restoration and album mastering? Why was Claudio Fuiano not involved with this production and these sound elements?
What a strange question for such an expert on CDs with older Italian soundtracks like you, Zardoz. It seems that you have bought not even one of all those CDs with CAM titles Juan Angel and I have produced on Saimel during the last 3-4 years (with scores by Rota, Rossellini, Rustichelli, Piccioni). Otherwise you would have certainly noticed that each of these albums had been mastered by Juan Angel himself and by no one else. Claudio had nothing to do at all with those CAM titles released on Saimel.
Are human beings with high standards regarding music in such scarce supply on planet Earth that not one single record producer all throughout these ensuing decades since 1960 has ever sought to present Piccioni's music for I Dolci Inganni on any album until Saimel's 2017 production?
Please don´t forget that the CAM doors were closed for almost all record labels till 2004. Only thanks to the massive efforts of Digitmovies and above all Claudio Fuiano these doors could be opened at all. So it would be much more appropriate to talk of the period from 2004 till 2017 in which the Piccioni has not been released on CD.
What a strange question for such an expert on CDs with older Italian soundtracks like you, Zardoz. It seems that you have bought not even one of all those CDs with CAM titles Juan Angel and I have produced on Saimel during the last 3-4 years (with scores by Rota, Rossellini, Rustichelli, Piccioni). Otherwise you would have certainly noticed that each of these albums had been mastered by Juan Angel himself and by no one else. Claudio had nothing to do at all with those CAM titles released on Saimel.
Yeah ... I bought more than one Saimel, but most of my discs are inside storage totes and I don't wish to start searching through them simply to look at booklet notes. I don't recall from memory which Saimel CDs were restored/mastered by Mr. Saiz himself. Actually, the Saimel albums which I do remember (older releases) were restored/mastered by Claudio Fuiano:
-) Les Biches -) Quando Le Donne Si Chiamavano Madonne -) Berlino, Appuntamento Per Le Spie -) Attentato Ai Tre Grandi / Africa Ama -) Il Malato Immaginario -) Strogoff / L'Udienza -) Ciao Gulliver / Senza Via D'Uscita -) Dottor Jekyll E Gentile Signora / Mystere -) L'Orchestra Rossa
So ... there have been Saimel CDs for which had Claudio worked on the sound elements and I am curious as to when Juan Angel has been mastering albums himself.
Please don´t forget that the CAM doors were closed for almost all record labels till 2004. Only thanks to the massive efforts of Digitmovies and above all Claudio Fuiano these doors could be opened at all. So it would be much more appropriate to talk of the period from 2004 till 2017 in which the Piccioni has not been released on CD.
Thanks for the info, Stefan. I was under the impression that music from the C.A.M. vaults was able to be 'rented' for film productions (for stock/library music tracking purposes) and was, also, available to be prepped for potential album releases since they listed their recording holdings in 1991 for possible future 'club' CDs.
'closed doors' until 2004 helps explain why genre fans couldn't get items like Ortolani's Danza Macabra prior to the 21st century.
