There is a lot of truth to that. Silva Screen's Raise The Titanic isn't a perfect soundalike, but it's damn close and I play it a lot.
I don't have RTT on DVD, but I have a mono sound clip of the Prologue (my favorite track), and honestly, just going from that, I can't discern any reason to prefer the OST to the City of Prague. The rerecording is at least as good as the film version from a musical standpoint.
If it weren't for the sound fx probably being trapped in the film's "music and effects" element, RTT could be remastered for home video with the Silva music in place of the OST, and I'll bet it would be tremendous, especially for people with good TV sound systems.
But wasn’t John Barry at one of the recording session? I have seen pictures. At the City of Prague’s?.recording studios???
John Barry’s Music ?? is much harder to get right..City of Prague..we’re out of their league..couldn’t handle Tempos, Flow and Eb of Barry. The Bond Music was truly appalling and thin and it sounded like Rehearsal at all times.
There is a lot of truth to that. Silva Screen's Raise The Titanic isn't a perfect soundalike, but it's damn close and I play it a lot.
I don't have RTT on DVD, but I have a mono sound clip of the Prologue (my favorite track), and honestly, just going from that, I can't discern any reason to prefer the OST to the City of Prague.
Then you'll notice that in the last bars of that prologue a counter phrase on brass is featured on the Silva track which Barry only included very subtley, if at all (it may be there on tuba) on his end title on the original score. To me that counter motif says the story has concluded. Does it make a difference? Probably not, but it's one of those subtleties that makes Barry's music so unique and something I miss in re-recordings.
There is a lot of truth to that. Silva Screen's Raise The Titanic isn't a perfect soundalike, but it's damn close and I play it a lot.
I don't have RTT on DVD, but I have a mono sound clip of the Prologue (my favorite track), and honestly, just going from that, I can't discern any reason to prefer the OST to the City of Prague.
Then you'll notice that in the last bars of that prologue a counter phrase on brass is featured on the Silva track which Barry only included on his end title on the original score. To me that counter motif says the story has concluded. Does it make a difference? Probably not, but it's one of those subtleties that makes Barry's music so unique and something I miss in re-recordings.
Even on YouTube ..Raise The Titanic, with John Barry’s score..it is A Beautiful thing to hear...it is still fresh as it was in 1979. Just like John Williams The Towering Inferno..the original is the very best, and everything after, including FSM Release..failed to capture what Williams composed in 1974. Even watching Zulu, on tv, the sound of Barry’s music is still even better than City of Prague’s effort. Dear Mrs. John Barry..Please Release Your Husbands Entire Books Of Music. Please.
Steve H wrote: Then you'll notice that in the last bars of that prologue a counter phrase on brass is featured on the Silva track which Barry only included on his end title on the original score. To me that counter motif says the story has concluded. Does it make a difference? Probably not, but it's one of those subtleties that makes Barry's music so unique and something I miss in re-recordings.
That's a fine observation I was not aware of, having less familiarity with the film. Thank you.
Just like John Williams The Towering Inferno..the original is the very best, and everything after, including FSM Release..failed to capture what Williams composed in 1974.
I thought the FSM release was the original soundtrack.
Just like John Williams The Towering Inferno..the original is the very best, and everything after, including FSM Release..failed to capture what Williams composed in 1974.
I thought the FSM release was the original soundtrack.
What they all did back then, Film Version And Concert Album Version. FSM did combination of both. Film version of The Towering Inferno 5 minute opening..Williams used Cymbal Crashes to announce the film name and Irwin Allen’s Name. But Concert Version did not..and few other differences.
What they all did back then, Film Version And Concert Album Version. FSM did combination of both. Film version of The Towering Inferno 5 minute opening..Williams used Cymbal Crashes to announce the film name and Irwin Allen’s Name. But Concert Version did not..and few other differences.
Yes, but both recordings were done by Williams himself, who decided to eliminate the cymbal crashes for the album version. It was not a decision made by FSM.
There is a lot of truth to that. Silva Screen's Raise The Titanic isn't a perfect soundalike, but it's damn close and I play it a lot.
I don't have RTT on DVD, but I have a mono sound clip of the Prologue (my favorite track), and honestly, just going from that, I can't discern any reason to prefer the OST to the City of Prague. The rerecording is at least as good as the film version from a musical standpoint.
If it weren't for the sound fx probably being trapped in the film's "music and effects" element, RTT could be remastered for home video with the Silva music in place of the OST, and I'll bet it would be tremendous, especially for people with good TV sound systems.
No, to me there are some very clear differences in the two interpretations.
The most obvious difference is that the original recording has much stronger bass presence that leads to greater dramatic gravitas. I don't know whether Barry did that in the mix or whether he 'invisibly' augmented the orchestra with a synthesizer, which he sometimes did, to beef up the bass presence.
There are interpretive differences too.
The repeating piano figure in 'Memories of the Titanic', is a 5 note repeating figure in the Barry recording but is reduced to a 3 note figure with gaps in the new recording. The string line in the same cue is also a little different, dropping one note from the melody line.
The closing bars of the Cornwall theme wrap up differently to the Barry recording.
The main line in the 'Floodlight Waltz' cue is also slightly different than it is to the film version, again seemingly dropping one note from the line. That cue particularly misses the bass presence in the original.
The "Southby" cue seems to be orchestrated differently in the two recordings. Maybe they couldn't get enough presence out of the harp, I don't know.
I want to emphasise, I'm not having a go—I'm not criticising or putting it down. It's a very, very good recording right up there with the Charles Gerhardt recordings and I absolutely love it. I play it lots. It's just that if you say you can hear no differences between the two recordings, I don't concur with that and I'm just sharing the differences I can hear.
Stephen, I think Raise the Titanic and Zulu are the finest Barry score recreations by Nic Raine and the City of Prague Phil.
My only quibble with either one is the ahead of tempo snare on "Blowing the Tanks", and the too-loud staccato piccolos and flutes in the same piece. It's funny, because the earlier snare on "Dog Attack" is spot on. A pity, as "Blowing the Tanks" was the music that really hooked me on Barry scores in the first place.
Maybe by the time the session got to "Blowing the Tanks", the snare percussionist was tired. I know the Silva team doesn't get to do these projects at a measured pace.
I think their best recreation is actually ROBIN AND MARIAN, but I do think RAISE THE TITANIC and ZULU are both very good.
The fact one can hear interpretive differences between an original and a new recording doesn't mean the new recordings aren't great albums—or that they're inferior.
I can hear a shopping list of differences between Gerhardt's EMPIRE STRIKES BACK and Williams' and you definitely couldn't substitute the Gerhardt recording in the film, but Gerhardt's is still a great album.
I'd say exactly the same with Nic Raine's RAISE THE TITANIC.
That's the nature of music, that two different performances aren't going to be exactly the same and I'm not expecting them to be. I just dispute it when people say there are no discernible differences between Silva Screen's recordings and the original film recordings. There are.
Some of their Silva recordings (shout out to The Lion in Winter and The Last Valley, not mentioned yet I think) are also quite indispensable too, though. But I think the orchestra has just continued to get better over the years. Even on the Tadlow label, I think Rozsa's Sodom & Gomorrah was a step up performance/recording-wise from El Cid, and that one blew me away when it came out!
With the availability of the music/FX track on the Network Blu-Ray as a possible reference, would it even be worth doing to record again now that most of the music material there is at least in the clear (as opposed to the laserdisc)? I'm not sure if I read James here post once years ago about the possibility of revisiting it.
A good example of this is the track Finding Titanic, or whatever it is called on the Silva release. At the end of the cue there is a kind of apprehensive, slighty cautious, variation of the exploration theme. Then there is a slight lull, followed by a glorious swelling coda as we discover the Titanic. Of course! We've discovered the Titanic. It's a joyous almost overwhelming moment! Barry placed the emphisis of the entire track on that pivotal moment and those swelling eight notes from the strings. On the Silva track,to me anyway, it feels like the track just plays out to the end with no heart. The emphisis is gone and the coda just comes off flat. Anyway being non musically trained that's as good as description as I can make to explain it? In saying that I still admire the rerecording but I think it proves Barry's music and the heart he put into it is not that easy to tackle.
I think their best recreation is actually ROBIN AND MARIAN, but I do think RAISE THE TITANIC and ZULU are both very good.
Cheers
I'm sure that Stephen is aware that, for Robin and Marian, Silva had access to Barry's actual written scores, whereas for the other re-recordings Nic Raine had to reconstruct everything by ear.
That's the main reason why Robin and Marian is the best re-recording they did, although I will say that their rendition of The Last Valley was way better than RTT (then again, I almost never listen to the latter for purely musical reasons).
As a side note, in an interview in a 1983 edition of Cinemascore Doug Fake from Intrada's stated he investigated the possibility of an album release at the time but it was too costly. If only?
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