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 Posted:   Sep 13, 2018 - 8:58 AM   
 By:   Rameau   (Member)


And Brexit . I don't how this will affect any buying options from European suppliers (I voted to leave) and finally today's films and scores fill me with apathy. I haven't seen anything decent at the cinema for a while and today's composers just don't seem to have it . I really miss the films with proper Main Titles and plots that develop and evolve and scores that allow the composer to build up tension and character. And finally actors that can really act.

As for disposing of my collection I live in the UK so my options are seemingly limited.

Ah! Well rant over back to my lists


I'm also in the UK (Greater London) & when I want to get rid of CDs & Books & DVDs I just give 'em to a charity shop, I just can't take the hassle of selling stuff. I'm a bit younger than you (coming up to 68) & happily live alone, so I'm under no pressure to get rid of my beloved junk, except that I live in a small house & I have to have a clear-out now & again. The thing to get your mind around is: all the stuff that's so precious to you is just so much landfill to most others.

There was a TV doc about Germaine Greer a few months ago (she's a right miserable old bag now), & she lives in this beautiful large old house in Essex, huge rooms, big windows, millions of books & huge garden...only she's nearly eighty now, the house isn't full of people like it used to be, she now lives in just two rooms of the house, the garden has gone wild, so she's selling up & moving to a much smaller place & said that most of her books will probably go to landfill. That's just the way it is.

 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2018 - 9:26 AM   
 By:   Scott M (Oldsmith)   (Member)

Two minute Google search...

https://www.lifewire.com/myths-about-copying-and-sharing-mp3s-and-cds-debunked-2487914

You can sell or give away the original CD, but only as long as you no longer have any copies of the music in any format (unless of course, you have another copy that has been legitimately paid for). You can not copy the CD onto your computer and load MP3’s of it onto your portable MP3 player, and then give the original CD to your best friend because you don’t need it anymore.

Think of it like you bought a couch. You can use the couch in your living room if you want. You can move it to a bedroom if it works better for you there. You can remove the throw pillows and use them in a different room than the couch. But, when you give the couch to your friend, the couch is gone. You can’t *both* give the couch away *and* keep the couch at the same time, and the music that you buy should be treated the same way.


More links...

https://www.austinchronicle.com/columns/2006-03-24/349702/

https://audiophilereview.com/audiophile-music/rip-then-sell-your-cds.html

https://civil.laws.com/civil-law/fines-for-a-burned-cd

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2018 - 9:47 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

Two minute Google search...

https://www.lifewire.com/myths-about-copying-and-sharing-mp3s-and-cds-debunked-2487914

You can sell or give away the original CD, but only as long as you no longer have any copies of the music in any format (unless of course, you have another copy that has been legitimately paid for). You can not copy the CD onto your computer and load MP3’s of it onto your portable MP3 player, and then give the original CD to your best friend because you don’t need it anymore.

Think of it like you bought a couch. You can use the couch in your living room if you want. You can move it to a bedroom if it works better for you there. You can remove the throw pillows and use them in a different room than the couch. But, when you give the couch to your friend, the couch is gone. You can’t *both* give the couch away *and* keep the couch at the same time, and the music that you buy should be treated the same way.


More links...

https://www.austinchronicle.com/columns/2006-03-24/349702/

https://audiophilereview.com/audiophile-music/rip-then-sell-your-cds.html

https://civil.laws.com/civil-law/fines-for-a-burned-cd


Don't forget folks that there's a big police satellite in the sky monitoring everything we write on the "computer" and what we say on the "telephone", so it's just as well I've never done any of the above. Especially the bit about the sofa.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2018 - 4:23 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Two minute Google search...

Thank you, Oldsmith.

Yes, as one who works in academia, I can confirm that conducting digital research using various combinations of keywords will produce hundreds or thousands of hits within seconds.

But the real work begins when you start digging into those hits.

If you would have spent two minutes apiece on any of those four links you shared, you would have seen that:

1. Neither the Austin Chronicle nor Civil Laws links address the concept of keeping the files after you've sold the original physical copies.
2. The LiveWire article addresses the legal AND ETHICAL aspects of copying CDs, and is written by someone with no legal credentials.
3. The author of the Audiophile Review piece similarly has no legal credentials. If you had read further down, you may have seen this comment from someone who claims to be a copyright lawyer:

"Steven, the copyright question is actually a complicated one, and the outcome is not nearly as clear as you suggest (I say this as a copyright lawyer). I discussed this in detail in Letters to the Ed in Stereophile some years ago. Basically, the copyright act expressly permits you to resell your CDs (see section 109). Then the question becomes what permits you to rip the CD in the first place? Is it consent by the copyright owners (record labels have repeatedly said they "have no objection" to ripping your own CDs)? Is it fair use (I would argue it is)? And depending on your answer, how can that burden your ultimate right to resell the CD, perhaps years later? If it was a fair use when you did it, how can it suddenly change later based on your exercise of a different statutory privilege? I assure you, the answers are up for debate among copyright experts."

Now, many of us have heard about the recent iTunes ruling, in which the iTunes library of deceased person could not be passed on to his family. That is because, with iTunes, we are buying not an audio file but a license, and this is surely specified somewhere in that massive amount of microscopic text that we skip over prior to checking the box that says "I agree."

But, when or where do we agree to anything when buying an LP or CD? I certainly never have.

So, again, I will ask:

Can anyone point to either specific legislation or a particular court ruling specifying the illegality of keeping digital files from a legitimately purchased LP or CD, after the person in question has unloaded the physical LP or CD? I am simply asking if legislation or a court ruling exists.

Oh, and as a preemptive measure, there is a difference between "illegal" and "unlawful." I will save that for a future post, if anyone wishes to continue the discussion.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2018 - 4:32 PM   
 By:   ANDCON   (Member)

Hello stovepipe 46
Can you please email via aak@netspace.net.au . I am an interested buyer..PLEASE contact me...and don't be concerned that i am in Australia...I will pay for postage!!!

 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2018 - 4:36 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

I'm well into my 70s now and I've been collecting soundtracks for over 50 years so I've got a lot and many have not been played in 30 or so years. So at the behest (alright 'threat' ) of my wife I've decided tho reduce my collection down to around 250 of my most cherished LPs and CDs. So I'm now beginning to list all those that I simply cannot do without. And at least I can play each one at least once a year.

Soundtracks or the wife? Not an easy choice.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2018 - 6:15 PM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)


Can anyone point to either specific legislation or a particular court ruling specifying the illegality of keeping digital files from a legitimately purchased LP or CD, after the person in question has unloaded the physical LP or CD? I am simply asking if legislation or a court ruling exists.


Regardless, I fail to see the difference between "have CD now, have copy then sell CD" and "download CD without buying anything" because they have the same base effect -- one more person has a copy of the music than has paid for it.

 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2018 - 6:56 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)


Regardless, I fail to see the difference between "have CD now, have copy then sell CD" and "download CD without buying anything" because they have the same base effect -- one more person has a copy of the music than has paid for it.




If I buy a new CD, rip a copy for myself and then give the CD to a friend for free or for a used item price, we will have provided more money to the performer/label than if we had both simply listened the same recording, hundreds of times, on Spotify or the like.
Last I read about it, Spotify paid something like $0.006 per play, while a CD buyer gives the performer/label several dollars. At that rate, after 1000 plays on Spotify ($6) the artist/label would make LESS than if someone bought the CD and gave 100 people free copies of it. Is that not true?

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2018 - 7:05 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Regardless, I fail to see the difference between "have CD now, have copy then sell CD" and "download CD without buying anything" because they have the same base effect -- one more person has a copy of the music than has paid for it.

Respectfully, the fact that you fail to see the difference has no bearing on how the two scenarios are viewed from a legal perspective. Something is not suddenly illegal just because it seems like it should be.

 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2018 - 7:23 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)


Respectfully, the fact that you fail to see the difference has no bearing on how the two scenarios are viewed from a legal perspective. Something is not suddenly illegal just because it seems like it should be.





No-one here seems to complain about all the poster artwork copied and distributed for custom covers. That material is copyright and produced by creative professionals. Why do we not also waste some time discussing the evils of pilfering poster art or duplicating cover art? If someone scans a CD cover, are they obliged to rip up the booklet before they can sell the CD? Have you ever done that? If not, why not? What was the finding of the last court to adjudicate this issue?

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2018 - 7:31 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

No-one here seems to complain about all the poster artwork copied and distributed for custom covers. That material is copyright and produced by creative professionals. Why do we not waste some time discussing the evils of pilfering poster art?

Good question. I guess we are selective about our free copyrighted material.

 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2018 - 7:59 PM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

@ OnyaBirri - Are you saying when you buy a CD you're not buying a license for listening to the music? It's my understanding you are, and the medium used to deliver the music doesn't matter. Sell the CD and you sell the license for listening to that music. Under fair use you can make a back up copy as long as you don't sell the original.

I also believe there's some kind of taxation for every single blank CD we buy which goes to the music industry as partial compensation.

Not trying to argue the issue. If the above statement is simply wishful thinking by the music industry and not enacted by law I stand corrected. But that's how it's always been explained to me.

 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2018 - 8:04 PM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

No-one here seems to complain about all the poster artwork copied and distributed for custom covers. That material is copyright and produced by creative professionals. Why do we not waste some time discussing the evils of pilfering poster art?

Good question. I guess we are selective about our free copyrighted material.


This is a whole other can of worms. Simply put there's no way to police the internet to this extent. You could make digital copies of artwork you legally purchase, load them in Photoshop and make your own personal covers. That would fall under fair use. But once you start to illegally grab copyrighted material off the internet and or share your creations online, then it would be illegal distribution of copyrighted material. Though technically if it's different enough from the source material there's no copyright infringement, though it would be open to debate in civil court.

 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2018 - 12:54 AM   
 By:   Chris Rimmer   (Member)

I'm lucky, I think, I have sons who are queueing up to take my collection off me. Luckily they share a similar taste in music, so my collection will pass on to them. They are very keen to inherit all my cd's, so keen in fact I've recently hired a food taster to sample my meals before I eat.

You can't be too careful.

Paranoid, not at all. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2018 - 1:08 AM   
 By:   Tango Urilla   (Member)

You must have quite the collection if it's worthy of patricide!

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2018 - 2:20 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

The legal ping-pong match between Onya, Terra, Razzle Bathbone et al has been most entertaining. It reminds me of a court martial scene from Star Trek (TOS).

It also reminded me that when I sold my last sofa, I took a photograph of it and am now sitting on it. I hope the big police satellite in the sky has more important things to worry about, because I don't want big Minority Report thought-cops appearing at my window.

To the OP (old pensioner) Stovie - Now do you see what you've done? Whatever, do let us know how the slimming process goes.

 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2018 - 3:07 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

There have been some truly great posts in this thread.

TerraEpon's confession at how (easily) "amazed" he is. Good stuff coming from one of this board's "establishment" figures.
Solium's passive-aggressive, "I'm not a copyright lawyer, but I'm going to post like one" routine
Basil's hilarious "gratitude." Humor from a Chelsea FC supporter. Who knew?

Of course, it was all undone a bit by Graham's having to mention that ham-fisted, allegorical science fantasy series from the forever-dead 1960s, but I'm feeling enough faux forgiveness to "let it go."

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2018 - 3:12 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)



Of course, it was all undone a bit by Graham's having to mention that ham-fisted, allegorical science fantasy series from the forever-dead 1960s, but I'm feeling enough faux forgiveness to "let it go."


It had to be that and not Perry Mason, Jim, because of the Spockisms.

 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2018 - 3:23 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Of course, it was all undone a bit by Graham's having to mention that ham-fisted, allegorical science fantasy series from the forever-dead 1960s, but I'm feeling enough faux forgiveness to "let it go."

It had to be that and not Perry Mason, Jim, because of the Spockisms.


If by Spockisms you mean the copious amounts of Plomeek soup being symbolically and of course, flamboyantly, thrown against the walls of this thread, then I agree.

It's always "Pon Farr" with these people.

 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2018 - 3:34 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Regardless, I fail to see the difference between "have CD now, have copy then sell CD" and "download CD without buying anything" because they have the same base effect -- one more person has a copy of the music than has paid for it.

Looking at it another way, when the cd goes out of print and/or your copy stops working, any back-up made is "music preservation."
Likewise, there's alot of music on tapes rotting away in vaults or libraries that is untouchable because of copyrights, etc. They need to be digitized before it's too late.

 
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