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This is a comments thread about FSM CD: The 5,000 Fingers of Dr. T.
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2010 - 7:17 PM   
 By:   Josh Mitchell   (Member)

I am totally stoked on this release. The film has been a favorite of mine since childhood, and I love the songs, the score, and everything in between (whatever that means). I can't wait to hear all of the bonus material that didn't make it into the film. For me, this is one of the top releases of the year.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2010 - 8:39 PM   
 By:   Angelillo   (Member)

With this 3CD release, Film Score Monthly has lovingly recreated the authors’ complete original conception of the music—a painstaking restoration effort that involved many years of scouring the globe for the best-sounding copies of rare acetate discs (the only surviving music masters from the production). All of Hollander’s songs, both ballet sequences in their entirety and most of the underscore (including much that wasn’t used in the final film) are presented on the first disc and the beginning of disc 2.

But that isn’t all—the rest of disc 2 features alternate versions and additional material, including orchestra-only tracks of several of the songs (Karaoke Seuss, anyone?). Disc 3 comprises archival piano recordings played by Hollander himself, revealing some of his early ideas for the music; pre-production piano recordings made for rehearsal purposes; and all the major song and dance sequences exactly as they are heard in the finished film.


Sorry for being so ignorant but...what about the rendition of those recordings ?

Mono ?

Stereo ?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2010 - 10:33 PM   
 By:   movieben1138   (Member)

It's a bizarre, imaginative movie that's always a delight. I love the songs. Hans Conreid was perfect in it. I watched it again recently with friends. Top shelf release.

Don't open that bottle- it's- ATOMIC! big grin

I love Seuss's anecdote about filming the boys on the mile long piano. One of them threw up, starting a chain of mass vomiting.




How atomic?

This is great! I host a weekly movie night at my house and we watched this film about two months ago. I can't wait to get my hands on this set!

 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2010 - 2:02 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

Never seen the film and musicals aren't usually my cup of tea, but the plentiful orchestral clips sound fabulous to me. Ordered! Really looking forward to hearing it in full. I'm anticipating this will be one of the best discoveries of the year.
Do the notes make it clear which cues or sections were written by the additional composers (Salter etc)?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2010 - 2:18 AM   
 By:   Graham S. Watt   (Member)

Just a quick comment on the film itself - I haven't seen it since I was about 8 years old. I know that 8-year-olds are drinkin', smokin' n' shaggin' nowadays but when I saw it it scared the schidt out of me. Gave me nightmares for weeks. Perhaps I was just a feverish, oversensitive child. Even The Magic Roundabout was quite frightening. Anyone know what I mean?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2010 - 4:20 PM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

.....Sorry for being so ignorant but...what about the rendition of those recordings ?

Mono ?

Stereo ?.....



Angelillo.....they are mono.

This section of your quote tells you:

....a painstaking restoration effort that involved many years of scouring the globe for the best-sounding copies of rare acetate discs (the only surviving music masters from the production).....

I've never known a true "acetate" from the Golden Age being in anything but mono.

Historically, what we call "acetates" were usually quickly burned/scribed discs which had the recording-coating of acetate laid down on a stiff cardboard, thin metal, or (particularly during the war) thin glass base (like window pane glass).

They were in 10" or 12" or 16" sizes, to be played back at 78rpm (or 33 1/3 rpm, but with a standard-groove needle), used primarily for reference and checking within the studio system.

Very often they played from the "Inside Out" --- which meant that the needle started at the inside groove of the disc and played toward the outside edge, instead of the records we now know commercially.

On the paste-on labels which accompanied the best-produced discs, the information about the film's title and production number, the music scene number, take number, and timing would usually be typed or handwritten in. The labels also often had boxes which could be quickly checked as to whether the disc speed was 78 or 33, or whether it played "Inside Out" or "Outside In".

Sometimes there were no labels at all on the discs, and music and sound editors would write on the disc's blank area with grease pencil regarding the information they needed.

Since these kinds of discs were never commercially intended outside the movie or recording studio confines, they are always quite rare and often the only surviving material on the scores of many films. (Most of what survives of Max Steiner's WB scores from the '30s, '40s, and early '50s survives only on acetates---and we are really lucky that THESE even exist. Other composers weren't so lucky or thoughtful in saving their work.)

This set is an amazing historical addition to the film music realm and I ordered it immediately.

The film is delightful, but was, of course, producer Stanley Kramer's biggest disappointment and failure. Fortunately, it has become, in some circles, a cult adventure in another world and a long-standing lesson to little boys about the errors of daydreaming and not practicing their piano lessons.

"Ten little happy fingers........"

 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2010 - 6:25 PM   
 By:   Frank DeWald   (Member)

Do the notes make it clear which cues or sections were written by the additional composers (Salter etc)?

Yes, the booklet identifies both the composer and orchestrator of each cue.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2010 - 7:21 PM   
 By:   Doc Loch   (Member)

Since the subject of transcription discs has come up, a while ago I purchased a 16-inch disc of music from Spellbound (made by the Selznick studio) that plays from the inside out. Several people at my university have been trying to help me find equipment that will allow us to play this but so far no luck. I'd welcome any suggestions on how I could get a copy made of this.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2010 - 7:31 PM   
 By:   Angelillo   (Member)

I've never known a true "acetate" from the Golden Age being in anything but mono.This set is an amazing historical addition to the film music realm and I ordered it immediately.

Thank you very much for this great deal of information regarding acetates you brought to me. It's very clear and very complete. I'm happy !

I was mere curious about how it might sound since a gentleman of the pool stated : when I read the word acetate I run for the hills ... Ouch ! It was like NOT EVEN MONO !!!!

Since this movie is a pure gem and very regarded here in France among many generations of cinéphiles - a famous commercial spot by Kodak of the 8O's even stole the fashion look of the children (www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgRnKPUh_Lc) - I can't pass this !

Thank you again for the time you took to explain me all about acetates !

Regards,

Angel

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2010 - 8:25 PM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

......I've never known a true "acetate" from the Golden Age being in anything but mono.This set is an amazing historical addition to the film music realm and I ordered it immediately.

Thank you very much for this great deal of information regarding acetates you brought to me. It's very clear and very complete. I'm happy !

I was mere curious about how it might sound since a gentleman of the pool stated : when I read the word acetate I run for the hills ... Ouch ! It was like NOT EVEN MONO !!!!

Since this movie is a pure gem and very regarded here in France among many generations of cinéphiles - a famous commercial spot by Kodak of the 8O's even stole the fashion look of the children (www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgRnKPUh_Lc) - I can't pass this !

Thank you again for the time you took to explain me all about acetates !

Regards,

Angel.....



You're quite welcome, Angel!

I'll bet you're going to enjoy Dr. T's Piano Training sessions when they arrive on your shores!!! smile I'm also pleased the film is so well regarded in France. It was truly a unique project.

As for the negativity about acetates, we have, among our filmmusic collectors, some who not only don't like mono, but won't buy it, and particularly if the sound derives from acetates.

Acetates, since they are not commercial endeavors, are often of archival quality---meaning they can have hiss, scratches, over-recording and all the other anomalies of a sound medium resembling a film "work print". FSM and Lukas (as well as Ray Faiola/BYU/SAE) have done a very good job of taking the occasional acetate cue or complete score and turning it into something quite listenable---if you understand the parameters of the original source.

Those of us who have been collecting a long time understand that you either accept the acetate substitutes on occasion, or you won't have the score AT ALL. There is no in-between in some of these cases of archival resurrections.

 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2010 - 8:30 PM   
 By:   Advise & Consent   (Member)

I remember reading a remark linking this to Mom and Dad Save the World.... Can anyone explain please?

Cheers!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 10, 2010 - 5:16 AM   
 By:   Angelillo   (Member)

Acetates, since they are not commercial endeavors, are often of archival quality---meaning they can have hiss, scratches, over-recording and all the other anomalies of a sound medium resembling a film "work print".

I understand now why in some LP's I own - for example Waxman's Lost Command released by Cinema Records - I can actually hear from time to time, mostly when the music is quite low, some very distant voices, obviously dialogue excerpts ! I always wondered how was that possible since they were not scores with FX tracks - like FSM's Satan Bug.

Incidentally, in the last release of SECONDS - coupled with IQ there are also such "ghostly" distant voices...and they speak french !!! I suppose, due to the fact that this movie was sadly cut for US release (of course all the nudity stuff but mainly two major sequences : one involving Leonard Nimoy as Hudson's son-in-law and an other poignant one when Hudson pays a visit to his wife) the only most "genuine" acetates available were from the french released version.

It doesn't bother me at all since, as you stated before, it's the only way to listen to it, like FSM's On Dangerous Ground.

Great news, so !!!!

 
 Posted:   Nov 10, 2010 - 11:44 AM   
 By:   Natrebo   (Member)

This was wonderful news when Lukas let it out a little early! I had just watched the film for the first time about 2 years ago and fell under its spell! I immediately came to this board and asked about it being released by FSM in this Frederick Hollander thread:
http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=32404&forumID=1&archive=1

I was so mesmerized by the music and movie that I immediately ordered the film, and almost purchased the soundtrack that Amazon was selling. Needless to say I ordered it the very second I saw it was available at SAE!

Bravo Lukas... this is exactly why we Love you!!! It's not just for the Goldsmith & Williams releases, but ones like this that show exactly what love of the art of film scoring is all about.

One great big'OL THANK YOU SIR! Thank you very much!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 10, 2010 - 12:08 PM   
 By:   Jim Doherty   (Member)

5000 Fingers... an enjoyably bizarre film. Always liked the music. My copy is ordered.

Doc Loch:

Radio stations used to have large transcription turntables, but if any of them still do, they're probably buried in the basement. Some Old Time Radio show collectors (the serious ones who have transcription discs) might also have that size turntable. However, I believe the SPELLBOUND recording of which you speak has been released on CD, coupled with a transfer of the set of 78s of SPELLBOUND music Rozsa recorded for commercial release, and the 78s of THE JUNGLE BOOK with Sabu narrating. It was on the Flapper label, a division of Pearl Records. Here it is on amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Film-Music-Miklos-Rozsa-Spellbound/dp/B000000X12/ref=sr_1_10?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1289419424&sr=1-10


Angelillo:

In the case of the Cinema LP of THE LOST COMMAND (which I too have), I believe the dialogue you're hearing was probably leakage coming from Franz Waxman's headphones.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 10, 2010 - 12:20 PM   
 By:   John McMasters   (Member)

To DocLoch -- I own an ancient turntable that I purchased from a radio station decades ago so that I could play 16" discs of old radio shows (I have a trunk of old shows on discs). It is enormous -- a huge felt-covered turntable platter and a gargantuan tone arm that pivots either way to allow for playing discs of any size (all the way up to 16" radio show discs) either from the outside in or inside out. I grabbed it when the station was getting rid of circa WWII equipment and modernizing to new equipment. Unfortunately it is in storage in the Midwest -- but you might want to check out radio show archivists, etc., to see if such equipment is available and can play your discs.

--John

P.S. I see Jim had the same idea and posted concurrent with me.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 10, 2010 - 3:06 PM   
 By:   Angelillo   (Member)

Angelillo:

In the case of the Cinema LP of THE LOST COMMAND (which I too have), I believe the dialogue you're hearing was probably leakage coming from Franz Waxman's headphones.


Well, since you are an audio engineer, I DO appreciate this professional point of "view" and I take it for granted !

Thank you !!!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 11, 2010 - 5:00 AM   
 By:   Bil1 Cougar   (Member)

Long time Film Composer and Conductor Dominic Frontiere was the accordianist on this soundtrack. It was recorded at Republic Pictures sound studio.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 11, 2010 - 6:04 AM   
 By:   Bill Cougar   (Member)

Longtime Composer and Conductor Dominic Frontiere was the accordianist on this soundtrack. It was recorded at the Republic Pictures soundstage even though it was a Columbia Pictures release.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 15, 2010 - 3:43 PM   
 By:   CarolynClark   (Member)

Please, Mr. Kendall or whoever has listened to this wonder, I need to know the following: has the Elevator Song has that precious third floor verse restored? The words are:
THIRD FLOOR DUNGEON

Household appliances.

Spike beds, electric chairs,

gas chambers, roasting pots,

and scalping devices.*

It's supposed to come in before he sings "Basement Dungeon-everybody out."

I know that verse was there, and missed it horrendously when Turner Classics shows Dr T now and then. It was most likely cut from modern prints because of the gas chamber reference.
This movie soundtrack is soooo delicious. My check will be in the mail as soon as I know I won't be disappointed.

 
 Posted:   Nov 15, 2010 - 4:10 PM   
 By:   Neil S. Bulk   (Member)

"Dungeon Elevator" is presented in its entirety with those lyrics at the start of disc 2.

An alternate with those same lyrics is presented later on disc 2.

The film edit is presented on disc 3.

Neil

 
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