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 Posted:   Jan 6, 2011 - 10:35 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Hmmm. I suppose a tape machine could be considered an instrument in it's own right. But there has to be a recording ON the tape and the only example that comes to mind is the Mellotron.

But apart from that, it's only a device that stores music that was already played.

Additionally, I think that to say that any instrument which requires external amplification is an electronic instrument is too broad a generalization.


If it was a Mellotron, it would be the only time Goldsmith ver used it in one of his film scores (considering he went through every electronic keyboard imaginable from almost every manufacturer [including Yamaha, for which he did a photo ad that was seen only in the U.K.]).



Whoops! I didn't mean to imply that Goldsmith used a Mellotron on POTA (sorry if I was unclear). Maybe there is, maybe there isn't... I don't know. My comment was in reference only to BM's opinion that a tape machine was an electronic (read: musical) instrument in and of itself. I found that side-topic interesting.

EDITED TO ADD: Do Mellotrons even have an "electric guitar" setting?

 
 Posted:   Jan 6, 2011 - 10:52 PM   
 By:   Advise & Consent   (Member)

Hmmm. I suppose a tape machine could be considered an instrument in it's own right. But there has to be a recording ON the tape and the only example that comes to mind is the Mellotron.

But apart from that, it's only a device that stores music that was already played.

Additionally, I think that to say that any instrument which requires external amplification is an electronic instrument is too broad a generalization.


If it was a Mellotron, it would be the only time Goldsmith ver used it in one of his film scores (considering he went through every electronic keyboard imaginable from almost every manufacturer [including Yamaha, for which he did a photo ad that was seen only in the U.K.]).



Whoops! I didn't mean to imply that Goldsmith used a Mellotron on POTA (sorry if I was unclear). Maybe there is, maybe there isn't... I don't know. My comment was in reference only to BM's opinion that a tape machine was an electronic (read: musical) instrument in and of itself. I found that side-topic interesting.

EDITED TO ADD: Do Mellotrons even have an "electric guitar" setting?


I don't think so. Not from what I've ben told by people in the know.

Cheers!

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 5:33 AM   
 By:   El Goodo   (Member)

The only Mellotron guitar I'm aware of is the Spanish guitar loop the Beatles used as the intro to The Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill on the White Album.

The Echoplex is no more an electronic instrument than a distortion pedal is.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 10:47 AM   
 By:   mikael488   (Member)

"In the midst of all these electronic experiments, I did Planet Of The Apes, which has no electronics on it at all, other than some tape delay on some string pizzicati. We didn't want to use any electronics. I used a number of obscure percussion instruments, such as a bass slide whistle. And, as you know, there is no such thing as a bass slide whistle. At the time I was under contract to Fox, and there was a percussionist named Hal Reese. In the early days he had worked for Disney and done a lot of the sound effects. So at the back of the scoring stages he had trunk after trunk of all these things he had made or had had made for him to do all of these sounds. So I would go exploring back there--he'd pull all of his stuff out, and it was great! I found this bass slide whistle and some other things. And then Emil (Richards) suggested this gag using stainless steel mixing bowls, which sounded very electronic too. And other sounds were created by the orchestra: for instance, the French horn players blowing air through their mouthpieces, doubled with the tam-tam being scraped. I used a number of inside-the-piano sounds too, like muting the strings with one hand. It was fun exploring these different sounds, and of course electronic music wasn't really that sophisticated or advanced at the time."
[Quoted from an interview with Jerry Goldsmith published in the Feb 1985 issue of Keyboard Magazine]

 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 12:17 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

i thought i heard vibraphone in the score.
btw if it plugs in, its electric/electronic
bruce

 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 12:18 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

. smile

del

 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 12:19 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

I've never considered electric guitar to be an electronic instrument. It's an amplified instrument. Like Jeff, I consider an electronic instrument to be one whose original signal is not generated acoustically. So electric guitar, Fender Rhodes, not electronic.

. smile


see above

have you ever tried to play electric guitar without an amplifier?!

 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 12:26 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

this is the last place i would have expected a semantic debate!

electric,electronic, amplified, acoustic..
you're giving me a headache!

folks a 'synthesizer' isn't the last word on electronic music
open your minds to the possibilities
smile
bruce

 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 12:39 PM   
 By:   Heath   (Member)

You want to get semantic, Brucie? A kazoo is an electronic instrument. Don't believe me? Take all the electrons out of its atoms and then try to play it. wink

 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 12:40 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

ok
you win!
bruce

 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 12:42 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

one last thing:


alot of people are impressed with composers who make instruments play sounds they were never intended to make.
i am not one of them, Eliot
smile
bruce

 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 12:43 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Ah, Heath. Now you're here I pose the question from a few posts back. I've tried to find an answer online but nothing doing.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 12:49 PM   
 By:   Broughtfan   (Member)

Yes. At the end of "The Hunt" (can't remember if it was part one or two), the last sonority is played by electric guitar. Interestingly, the cue was orchestrated by Herbert Spencer, who assisted Jerry's regular orchestrator, Arthur Morton, as they were both under contract to Fox at the time.

 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 12:51 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

Yes. At the end of "The Hunt" (can't remember if it was part one or two), the last sonority is played by electric guitar. Interestingly, the cue was orchestrated by Herbert Spencer, who assisted Jerry's regular orchestrator, Arthur Morton, as they were both under contract to Fox at the time.

sure sounds like it to me!

 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 12:51 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

Yes. At the end of "The Hunt" (can't remember if it was part one or two), the last sonority is played by electric guitar. Interestingly, the cue was orchestrated by Herbert Spencer, who assisted Jerry's regular orchestrator, Arthur Morton, as they were both under contract to Fox at the time.

sure sounds like it to me!

 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 1:37 PM   
 By:   Heath   (Member)

Hey Bruce, quit with the Echoplex already.

Ah, Heath. Now you're here I pose the question from a few posts back. I've tried to find an answer online but nothing doing.

I just used my ears. smile Also, the score's instrumentation has been widely written about over the decades by various journalists including the admirable Mr Jeff Bond. I recalled some of it by memory.

Of course, all of this fascinating debate (good stuff here on the whole) could be put to rest if my long held dream were realised: that this and many other classic scores were made available online in scanned manuscript form to the public for a fee or whatever. Why are we waiting?! Then we'd know about that mysterious "guitar" sound.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 1:49 PM   
 By:   filmusicnow   (Member)

Yes. At the end of "The Hunt" (can't remember if it was part one or two), the last sonority is played by electric guitar. Interestingly, the cue was orchestrated by Herbert Spencer, who assisted Jerry's regular orchestrator, Arthur Morton, as they were both under contract to Fox at the time.

Spencer also orchestrated Jerry's score for "Bandolero!" though it remains unknown why Morton wasn't available.

 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 1:49 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

sure sounds like it to me

 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 1:58 PM   
 By:   Heath   (Member)

Here you go, Bruce. It'll save having to type. wink



 
 Posted:   Jan 8, 2011 - 2:01 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

I thought you might say that, Heath. But you do compose, right? I get the impression that the main title leaves a whole load of room for improvisation. Hence my going on about musical timing, or punctuation. Because alot of the inventiveness in his scores (at least to me) is in the emphasis in the musical phraseology. Jeff once wrote that he had musical structure in his bones. I'd really like to have seen the jamming sessions for this piece. Imagine that?

 
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