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 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 12:37 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

PUPPET ON A CHAIN is his absolute masterpiece!!!!!!! His only score for an English film, if I am not mistaken.

1971's "The Light at the Edge of the World" and "The Deserter" were both English-language films.

And let's not forget 1969's "Kenner," which FSM released along with "More than a Miracle."


True.

There's 4 of them in English, mentioned above, plus a few others dubbed into English like "The Tenth Victim" & "Minnesota Clay".

However, I think "Puppet On A Chain" was the only British production to have a Piccioni score.
It was conducted in England by Harry Rabinowitz (I don't know if Piccioni himself ever left Italy for that score ... ? ...)



"Kenner" was a U.S. production (M & M Productions).

"The Light At the Edge of the World" was a U.S. - Spanish - Liechtenstein production -- a co-production of Bryna Productions (Hollywood), Jet Films (Madrid), and Triumfilm (Vaduz).

"The Deserter" was an Italian - Yugoslavian - U.S. production -- a co-production of Dino De Laurentiis Cinematografica (Rome), Jadran Films (Zagreb), and Heritage Films (New York).

And "Puppet On a Chain" was a British production (Big City Productions).

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 12:45 PM   
 By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)

From about the time Piccioni scored CONTEMPT/LES MEPRIS/IL DISPREZZO for Jean-Luc Godard (who favored the Georges Delerue version),

Sorry to interfere here, but this is not quite correct. Piccioni and Godard did never meet at all, not even later on. Piccioni did only work for Carlo Ponti on this film.
This is what really happened: For the Italian version, about 20 minutes of LE MÉPRIS were cut to avoid all the play with the different languages Godard undertook in this movie. So in the Italian dubbed version only Italian language is spoken. Carlo Ponti who was responsible for the cuts was very unsatisfied with the Delerue score, did not like it at all and searched for an Italian composer who would replace it with more modern, jazzy music. So he asked Piccioni at that time: "Would you do it? If you won't, I wil look for another Italian composer who will do it." Therefore Piccioni decided he would do that job for Ponti. Godard himself had nothing at all to do with the Italian version of the film and did not even authorize it. So there was never ever any contact between Godard and Piccioni. Godard had assigned Delerue for the score of the French version and no one else.

 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 1:00 PM   
 By:   Essankay   (Member)

I don't believe anyone has yet mentioned COLPO ROVENTE, but it's one of my favorites (along with many of the titles already noted).

 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 1:46 PM   
 By:   wayoutwest   (Member)

Yes Colpo Rovente is another must have score it has many similar tracks to Camille 2000

I'm also obsessed with


and this recent title from Kronos Records

http://www.kronosrecords.com/catalogue.html

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 1:54 PM   
 By:   ssaegusa   (Member)

I love Piccioni and IL BACIO especially (terrific main theme). THE LIGHT AT THE EDGE OF THE WORLD, IL BELL ANTONIO, LE MANI SULLA CITTA, MAFIOSO and EL OJO DEL HURACAN are great scores too.

 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 1:59 PM   
 By:   ToneRow   (Member)

Godard himself had nothing at all to do with the Italian version of the film and did not even authorize it.

Thanks for the clarification.

I don't know much about the Italian version of CONTEMPT, but I still recall reading somewhere that Godard didn't like the Piccioni music.
Perhaps I am confusing Godard's lack of authorization with lack of approval?

Anyway ... "wayoutwest" loves IL DISPREZZO, so it's got his approval! smile

[Besides, I mentioned Godard's picture with respect to a turning point in Piccioni's stylistic development during the 1960s. SENILITA and UN TENTATIVO SENTIMENTALE continue to have aural links back to ADUA, while a post-CONTEMPT score like THE 10TH VICTIM no longer sounds like ADUA's jazzy big band, for example]

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 2:26 PM   
 By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)

I don't know much about the Italian version of CONTEMPT, but I still recall reading somewhere that Godard didn't like the Piccioni music.
Perhaps I am confusing Godard's lack of authorization with lack of approval?


I have also never seen the Italian version and I really don't want to, because all those cuts will in my opinion totally destroy the film as I know and love it. I also can't imagine that the Piccioni score really fits into that special French film. If it would be a film like LA DECIMA VITTIMA, it would be certainly ok, but not for the Godard film which without the Delerue score will be lacking one of its most important elements.
It is logical that Godard would not have liked Piccioni's music if he ever saw excerpts or the full Italian dubbed version. Because he had his clear concept what kind of music he wanted for his film. In the same way as he wanted from Antoine Duhamel something in the vein of Robert Schumann for PIERROT LE FOU, he wanted from Delerue 13 minutes of symphonic music in the vein of US movies:
"Je voulais le côté musique symphonique de certains films américains, avec un air qui revient..."
("I wanted a symphonic kind of music in the way of certain American films with a melody which gets repeated...")
So with just these 13 minutes Delerue had composed for LE MÉPRIS in advance Godard had the musical material in his hands to fill with it about 40 minutes or even more in his movie just the way he wanted to. He put the same themes in several places and played with the music in his usual "unusual" Godardian way. Of course he couldn't do the same with Piccioni's much later Italian score and it also did not fit at all anymore into his symphonic and romantic concept - so of course it is absolutely clear that he did not like it, isn't it?

 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 2:32 PM   
 By:   ToneRow   (Member)

Wow! You guys are spoiling me - any most likely bankrupting me!

Thanks for those suggestions from the earlier period, ToneRow - they definitely appeal too.


You're welcome.

Keep in mind, too, that we didn't discover all these titles during one weekend.

I've been accumulating Piero Piccioni music for about 20 years, so take your time to gather what interests you most and get albums gradually (I typically purchase a single Piccioni item within a soundtrack order and space them out over months). Never had more than 2 Piccioni discs in a shipment, for example.

 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 2:49 PM   
 By:   wayoutwest   (Member)

Very interesting Stefan I also enjoy Delerue's score it is a pity there was not more music for that one.

We need this one wink

 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 2:51 PM   
 By:   ToneRow   (Member)

...Of course he couldn't do the same with Piccioni's later Italian score and it also did not fit at all into his symphonic and romantic concept - so of course it is absolutely clear that he did not like it, isn't it?

Yes, it is.

I had seen CONTEMPT before ever getting any of its soundtracks, and I remember the first time I played that CD of IL DISPREZZO how disparate the music was from the picture's content.

Yet, I still own that Piccioni CD, as well as Delerue's music, and the film itself on home video.

It's ironic that, just as Fritz Lang as a director in the movie needs to deal with an insensitive producer played by Jack Palance, LES MEPRIS itself was altered by a real-life producer (Ponti) making Lang's character symbolic of Godard.


 
 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 3:11 PM   
 By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)

Very interesting Stefan I also enjoy Delerue's score it is a pity there was not more music for that one.

We need this one wink


I am also still waiting for I DOLCI INGANNI. Very interesting and highly sensual, suggestive music (that organ!) for that Youtube sequence! The original tapes of the complete score should still be in the CAM/Sugar archives. At least the title is in the old CAM list from 1991 so they do have the rights for that score. So the best way would be if all the people here interested in this Piccioni score write to Digitmovies and ask them to release that score on CD. I don't see any other Italian CD label at the moment who could and would release it.

For me it is no pity that there is not more Delerue music for LE MÉPRIS. I don't know if you have ever seen the film, but there the music fits like a glove and I almost can't imagine a better way to use it. There is such a symbiosis between music and images that it can hardly be surpassed. Even Delerue himself was surprised when he saw the film at its preview in 1963 because Godard had not informed him before what he had done with his music. Delerue himself then almost had fear that his music was over-used in the film.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 3:16 PM   
 By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)

It's ironic that, just as Fritz Lang as a director in the movie needs to deal with an insensitive producer played by Jack Palance, LES MEPRIS itself was altered by a real-life producer (Ponti) making Lang's character symbolic of Godard.

Indeed, Tone Row, I fully agree with you here. It is all bitter irony and there is much truth in Fritz Lang's character and how he has to deal with the producer played by Palance in the movie itself.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 3:21 PM   
 By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)

Also, I'm disappointed with Piccioni's TEMPEST from 1958. It sounds older than '58, but, more to the point, it doesn't sound like the Piero we've come to know and love.

I really like LA TEMPESTA very much and therefore have a totally different opinion of this score, but what I want to to point out is that Piccioni re-used a theme from LA TEMPESTA in 1965 for the Soraya episodic film I TRE VOLTI. The theme - just a bit differently orchestrated - can also be found on the RCA LP of I TRE VOLTI.
By the way, it is also quite strange that the very nice I TRE VOLTI is still not available on CD after all these years!

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 4:00 PM   
 By:   CLaFong99   (Member)

Tone Row:

Don't miss two of Piccioni's best jazz/lounge scores:
"Swept Away" and "Quelle Strane Occasioni" which was recently released (finally)
on CD by Quartet Records. Great themes!

I would also recommend "Mimi Metallurgico (The Seduction of Mimi)", "Camille 2000",
"Anastasia Mio Fratello", and "Cadaveri Eccellenti"

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 4:05 PM   
 By:   morrifan   (Member)

Mitch the Verita cds are not overly pricey if you buy them from Ark Square in Japan the postage was only something like $4 when I ordered two titles from them in December to the UK think the discs worked out about £20 each which is not much more than a hillside title.
http://www.arksquare.net/index_main.html


Thanks for the link. Hadn't visited ArkSquare in years!

I usually wait until a "domestic" (italian) version gets released, mainly because of the price but also because I'm assuming the Japanese discs (Verita Note/Avanz etc...) are not always sonically upgraded.
But am I right? Do they use the master tapes? Are Claudio Fuiano/Daniel Winkler etc..involved in the latest Japanese reissues?

 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 4:08 PM   
 By:   wayoutwest   (Member)

Have yet to see Le Mepris I was intending on buying the Blu Ray after it was announced that it was on the way a couple of years ago but my money keeps getting diverted to discovering more scores and there is so many films I'd love to watch. smile

Good suggestion we should get a list together of worthy titles to ask Digit for.





 
 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 4:19 PM   
 By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)

[I usually wait until a "domestic" (italian) version gets released, mainly because of the price but also because I'm assuming the Japanese discs (Verita Note/Avanz etc...) are not always sonically upgraded.
But am I right? Do they use the master tapes? Are Claudio Fuiano/Daniel Winkler etc..involved in the latest Japanese reissues?


As far as I know, the Verita Note label doesn't exist anymore since about a year. At least they have fully stopped their soundtrack releases which always came from the General Music catalogue.
Yes, Verita Note did indeed have a contract with GDM and therefore they could of course use the original masters. But beware of Avanz and their newer releases from the last 2-3 years, because they are all more or less "boots".

 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 4:20 PM   
 By:   ToneRow   (Member)

Also, I'm disappointed with Piccioni's TEMPEST from 1958. It sounds older than '58, but, more to the point, it doesn't sound like the Piero we've come to know and love.

I really like LA TEMPESTA very much and therefore have a totally different opinion of this score, but what I want to to point out is that Piccioni re-used a theme from LA TEMPESTA in 1965 for the Soraya episodic film I TRE VOLTI. The theme - just a bit differently orchestrated - can also be found on the RCA LP of I TRE VOLTI.
By the way, it is also quite strange that the very nice I TRE VOLTI is still not available on CD after all these years!


Its interesting to learn about these minor recyclings.

For example, I was initially familiar with the "Arizona Dreaming" theme from its appearance within LA SPINA DORSALE DEL DIAVOLO, only to realize years later that this theme came a few years earlier in SE INCONTRI SARTANA...

And a motif heard in IL FARO IN CAPO AL MONDO has its origins in UN ITALIANO IN AMERICA.

I'm sure there's more such examples of themes being reused.

Perhaps upon subsequent listenings to LA TEMPESTA, I might locate more to appreciate.
I like early Piccioni such as LA DONNA CHE VENNE DEL MARE, but LA TEMPESTA is going to take time with me ...

 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 4:23 PM   
 By:   wayoutwest   (Member)

Claudio was involved in all the Verita cds and the sound quality is so much better I'm not too sure about who was involved in all the Avanz cds my favourite is Storia Di Una Monaca Di Clausura the score runs just over an hour sound quality is very good indeed it is fantastic you will never listen to the shorter version again it was made back in 2004 Mentions on back Special thanks to Gianni Dell'Orso Many Thanks Piero Piccioni.

 
 Posted:   Jan 7, 2012 - 4:27 PM   
 By:   ToneRow   (Member)

Tone Row:

Don't miss two of Piccioni's best jazz/lounge scores:
"Swept Away" and "Quelle Strane Occasioni" which was recently released (finally)
on CD by Quartet Records. Great themes!

I would also recommend "Mimi Metallurgico (The Seduction of Mimi)", "Camille 2000",
"Anastasia Mio Fratello", and "Cadaveri Eccellenti"


Thanks.

I had gotten just recently "Quelle Strane Occasioni" and was surprised to hear a few tracks from "Scacco Alla Regina" used.

 
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