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 Posted:   Nov 17, 2012 - 7:29 AM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

As always, simply a matter of personal taste.

Not if you're rejecting the score because you're mentally comparing it to Goldsmith, which is what you wrote before this.
If the score was introduced as being for a film most people had never seen, with no mention of another composer, some of the naysayers would have had a different reaction. Yes, the cue is busy; I wouldnt say "noisy" which suggests some kind of chaos. I'm not saying it would work better in "Chinatown," only that it's an intriguing score for something.


Not sure how you're finding something to argue about in my factual statement that what one enjoys listening to is a matter of personal taste. I described how I found it (noisy, etc.). That observation demands no agreement from others. To each his own. It was the producers, not I, who rejected the score. I happen to agree with their decision, based on the main title clip, but that relates only to its appropriateness for the film. That is a separate matter from how enjoyable Lambro's score might or might not be to listen to on CD. Please feel free to enjoy it to your heart's content. Or are you one of those people who has to have everyone agree with you before you're satisfied?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2012 - 7:38 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Not sure how you're finding something to argue about in my factual statement that what one enjoys listening to is a matter of personal taste.

I wasnt criticizing your taste. I understand you were saying you didnt like it, and it doesnt work compared to Goldsmith. I was mainly used the latter aspect to highlight how some folks are being dismissive solely based on comparing it to Goldsmith. And as I wrote, I'm not saying it would work as well as the Goldsmith score - I agree with you're analysis (although we havent heard the whole score). I was only saying that in itself, it sounds interesting.

 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2012 - 7:49 AM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

Not sure how you're finding something to argue about in my factual statement that what one enjoys listening to is a matter of personal taste.

I wasnt criticizing your taste. Part of your comments seems to be based on comparing it to Goldsmith (below). I'm mainly using that aspect to highlight how some folks here (not you completely, as you also found the music noisy) are being dismissive solely based on comparing it to Goldsmith. And as I wrote, I'm not saying it would work as well as the Goldsmith score - I agree with you're analysis (although we havent heard the whole score). I was only saying that in itself, it sounds interesting.


It lacked the melancholy of Goldsmith's score, which imo was a key element in the atmosphere of the film. I think Lambro's main title sets a confusing tone for the experience to follow, while Goldsmith puts you in exactly the right space.


I think we're agreeing, actually.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2012 - 7:54 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

I think we're agreeing, actually.

yes smile (although I liked the cue for music value). I was suggesting it should be pursued (or ignored) because of one's taste in music, rather than simply avoided because it isnt Goldsmith (although I'm sure there are people who only collect Goldsmith).
The cue seems like it was composed for live action rather than slow credits. I'm wondering if the opening credits was reedited?
The main cue seemed "impressionistic"- I dont know if that's the correct artistic word. Had an underlining creepy "feel" (feeling, not the musical content) that reminded me slightly of Delerue's rejected Something Wicked This Way Comes. Anyway, looking forward to hearing the rest.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2012 - 11:19 AM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

Sounds like the type of thing Polanski would have asked from a composer.

I also agree Goldsmith's score has a simple beauty that is pure genius.
But Goldsmith had the advantage of having no time to write it. When you are thrown into a situation as Robert Evans threw Jerry into, you have no choice but to go for the simplest and most streamline approach.

Having heard other music from Lambro he is no schlockmeister. There is definite ability there. And seeing how many complex scores Goldsmith wrote that were also dumped by other producers I make no harsh judgments. In fact I ordered this just to hear the alternate score to such a seminal movie.


Same here. Gave Lambro and Robin a chance



Indeed Polanski is a very dark fellow attracted to dark subjects (probably in no small way due to his being used as target practice by Nazis as a child). ROSEMARY'S BABY and also CHINATOWN ( a love story where... SPOILERS...one of the lovers get's her eye blown away and the other spends practically the whole movie with his nose split in two by a character played by the director) are very dark stories. I have no doubt if Goldsmith had worked with Polanski he would have made the director happy and composed a darker and more complex score. And if Lambro had worked with Robert Evans instead of Roman (and been given little time to compose) he might have come up with something similar to what Jerry did.

 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2012 - 1:59 PM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

I won't listen to samples before buying - just into the surprise. So, it was actually DW's comments that got me interested bc he knows his stuff. He described it as "like walking down a street in the French Quarter and hearing various jazz music and random noises coming from different directions." And this is what Ives' approach to composing was in many cases, so it piqued my interest. As well, Mancini's Touch of Evil Main Titles would fit this description, and this is kind of what Orson Welles had asked for.

I do not hear sadness in the trumpet lines, though. That would seem strange bc there isn't anything generally sad about the topic, or themes, of the film. It's a very complex film, so there can never be a right answer, but I would lean more towards the trumpets as "possibility" or "hope," and the pianos as "corruption" and "disgust."

Either way, a nice decription of someone's personal tastes that caused me to blink (or think).

 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2012 - 3:55 PM   
 By:   ToneRow   (Member)

This latest disc of music by Philip Lambro on Perseverance looks to be a very commendable "crossover" or "concept" album, if my observation is not too premature.

Without having done any research prior to this post, might I suggest that this album could very well be a "first".

A "first" with respect to a disc presenting a composer's absolute music/concert works being paired with that same composer's score for a film which was commissioned on the basis of those very concert pieces!

Has this ever been done before?

I refer to this as a "crossover" in another sense, as well, in that this 45-minute program is split into two halves which could appeal to followers of contemporary classical music (a subset of classical music's customer demographic) in addition to soundtrack enthusiasts.
These two "markets" seem to be almost mutually exclusive, with a rather small interface between hardcore classical and hardcore soundtrack collectors.

How many people, as an illustration, who listen to the music by the modern three "B"s (Pierre Boulez, Luciano Berio, Milton Babbitt) are also film music aficionados, and vice versa?

No doubt FSM members are aware of FSM's CD of concert music by Maurice Jarre, which is a poor seller most likely because the program does not contain actual film music.
Perhaps these concert pieces may have reached to more listeners if these works were paired with a Jarre soundtrack ... say ... THE COLLECTOR? Who knows?

I can think of a few situations similar to this Lambro-Polanski-CHINATOWN item - such as director Andrzej Wajda who was impressed so much by a concert work entitled "Livre des Katuns" by Jean Prodromides that Wajda commissioned Prodromides to score DANTON.
The soundtrack album for DANTON, though, contains neither "Livre des Katuns" nor a rejected score.

Another permutation is Morton Feldman's unused music for the film SOMETHING WILD, which surfaced as "Something Wild in the City: Mary Ann's Theme" on KAIROS (a label specializing in contemporary classical). Obviously, this 3-minute piece of music does not have a corresponding soundtrack. The score which was ultimately used for SOMETHING WILD is by Aaron Copland. At the time, United Artists did not consider Copland's music as commercially viable enough to be released on a soundtrack LP. Copland fashioned a concert piece based upon this material and it achieved a second life within Columbia Records' classical music line.
The sound recording of SOMETHING WILD eventually appeared on a Varese Sarabande CD during 2003. However, the program on this CD does not contain Copland's concertized version, which was re-christened "Music for a Great City".

So ... as far as I can recall ... there hasn't been an album featuring film music (especially a rejected score) along with any of its related absolute music as companion pieces on the album's program. (though I welcome any information to the contrary smile ).

Regarding this single sound sample, Philip Lambro's approach to juxtapose dissonances concurrent with the "straight" performances of period-appropriate tunes puts the music of Charles Ives in my mind.
Most of Charles Ives' mature music distorts accepted forms of music (marching band standards, popular tunes, hymns, patriotic pieces, the usual "war horse" suspects & old ditties, etc.) by having them performed off-key on purpose, by playing them incomplete and/or "bleeding" into each other, & by layering dissonances on top of them.
While it's too early to say so, I nevertheless expect Philip Lambro's "Los Angeles, 1937" could be companion to "Central Park in the Dark" or "Three Places in New England" by Ives! smile

[looking forward to "Structures for String Orchestra" & "Music for Wind, Brass & Percussion"]

 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2012 - 6:35 PM   
 By:   Adm Naismith   (Member)

I can see why audiences would be put off by this. Based solely on the Main Title sample, it's pretty aggressively modern/post modern, and it's played against something more traditional (Yes, Charles Ives, exactly). This is a lot to take in all by itself, never mind as the Main Title of a Hollywood movie.


Goldsmith was solidly a modern/post modern composer, of course, but his style never seemed this in-your-face.

 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2012 - 2:18 AM   
 By:   WillGoldNewtonBarryGrusin   (Member)

Very interesting and different.

Of course, Goldsmith´s score is iconic and hard to separate from the film.

But this one track really attracts my attention. Would love to hear the rest.

How people immediately consider that this one track sample is telling them everything about all the other tracks... talk about premature.

Ordered!

 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2012 - 3:13 AM   
 By:   Loren   (Member)

Regarding this single sound sample, Philip Lambro's approach to juxtapose dissonances concurrent with the "straight" performances of period-appropriate tunes puts the music of Charles Ives in my mind....."Central Park in the Dark" or "Three Places in New England"

It wasn't my intention to listen to the sample in order to avoid a premature analysis under the light of the Goldsmith canon
but as soon as I read about the Ives connection you did, I've immediately jumped to the listening.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2012 - 6:18 AM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)


How people immediately consider that this one track sample is telling them everything about all the other tracks... talk about premature.


I agree, but it's all they are offering. How can people make any sort of informed decision, especially for a rejected score, based on one track? Once again I just have to wonder about that company.

 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2012 - 7:09 AM   
 By:   The Cat   (Member)

If you want to hear more of the score, check out the trailer which is 100 % Phillip Lambro (with the exception of the jazz bit during the Paramount logo). That should give you more than enough idea of what the whole score is like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aifeXlnoqY

 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2012 - 8:13 AM   
 By:   Peter Greenhill   (Member)

If you want to hear more of the score, check out the trailer which is 100 % Phillip Lambro (with the exception of the jazz bit during the Paramount logo). That should give you more than enough idea of what the whole score is like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aifeXlnoqY

===========
Going by the music in the trailer, this is very good.

Change of mind, ordered!

Thanks for the link, Cat

 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2012 - 8:25 AM   
 By:   Adm Naismith   (Member)

If you want to hear more of the score, check out the trailer which is 100 % Phillip Lambro (with the exception of the jazz bit during the Paramount logo). That should give you more than enough idea of what the whole score is like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aifeXlnoqY


I maintain, more aggressive than Goldsmith, but no less enjoyable.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2012 - 10:13 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

order confirmation says it ships in 1-2 weeks. I wish the website had mentioned this. SAE lists it as a December Pre-order but I was hoping it would ship out quicker from Perseverance. I wonder how the autographed copies will be assigned.
FYI their "Dr Phibes Rises again" cd (limited 3000), under 100 copies left.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2012 - 10:25 AM   
 By:   Merry Goldsmith   (Member)

order confirmation says it ships in 1-2 weeks. I wish the website had mentioned this.

The website mentions this. wink "Availability: Usually ships in 1-2 weeks"

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2012 - 10:34 AM   
 By:   jonathan_little   (Member)

I have to pile on. The Main Title sounds like somebody recorded two different pieces of music over each other.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2012 - 10:38 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

order confirmation says it ships in 1-2 weeks. I wish the website had mentioned this.

The website mentions this. wink "Availability: Usually ships in 1-2 weeks"


uh, er, must have just been added to the page! big grin But seriously, what I meant is I got the impression from the website that it was released and available. Figured that shipping info was just a standard disclaimer about shipping. I see their older cds list shipping for 2-3 days, so my mistake, I sit corrected.

 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2012 - 12:57 PM   
 By:   The Cat   (Member)

I have to pile on. The Main Title sounds like somebody recorded two different pieces of music over each other.

You have very astoute ears - this is exactly what happened!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2012 - 1:08 PM   
 By:   HAL 2000   (Member)

Very interesting but if this is the approach Lambro took with the entire score then I can presume that it lacks the dreamy romance of Goldsmith's score. But this is very interesting in a purely musical sense. The main title seems almost more fitting a montage from The Godfather than for Chinatown.

 
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