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I happen to loathe Baz Luhrmann (after "Strictly Ballroom," which I enjoyed), but why the hell shouldn't Jay-Z score this film? Or at least, why should we assume he can't? Just because he hasn't already done it fifty times? Maybe he'll be a great fresh voice. Maybe.i
I agree with you on all counts, SchiffyM. I generally can't stand Baz either (but also like STRICTLY BALLROOM). And I have zero problem with someone like Jay-Z writing this score or any other. I wouldn't have thought that when the Daft Punk guys were announced as the composers on TRON LEGACY that the result would be one of my favorite scores of the last few years. And who would have thought that when the guy from Oingo Boingo got the job scoring the Pee Wee Herman movie in 1985 that it would wind up being as good as it was, or that it would kick off a continuously amazing career. It's important to keep an open mind about what good filmmusic can be and who can write it.
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I've seen previews for this at various holiday films I've attended. It looks over-produced.
The challenge with adapting "The Great Gatsby" to film is that the center section of the novel veers away from the reunion of Gatsby and Daisy to a flashback of Gatsby's backstory. Consequently, in the novel at least, we really don't know to what lengths Gatsby and Daisy went when they reunited. Film adaptations invariably indicate the two in bed together, but was that really what their previously upright characters would do? It's a debatable point.
On the other hand, many literary writers have said this approach is the key to the genius of Fitzgerald's achievement; he has created an American epic with a mystery at its center, and gets away with it. For me, the novel of "The Great Gatsby" embodies the eternal yearning of Americans to rise from their humble beginnings, and find success and love, not necessarily in that order. But, as Fitzgerald points out, no matter what we reach for, we will always be anchored by our beginnings, which keep affecting our choices and consequent behavior.
Fitzgerald's famous last line: "So we drift, boats agains the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past."
"The Great Gatsby" is really a poetic work, whose very nature seems to defy cinematic adaptations, which always end up overproduced and unwieldy. There's even an opera adaptation. Each version has elements which seem to work, surrounded by sections which seem to be too literal in their approach. I find it highly unlikely that any adaptation will seem satisfying.
As for Baz Luhrman, I have found that his flashy approach seems to overwhelm most of his work, and has only been effective, for this viewer at least, when he's doing flashy musicals. It might work, actually, as an approach to something from the ancient world, like the story of Antony and Cleopatra, who were both prone to frequent, mighty flashy displays...
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I take it NOBODY has seen "Australia"?
I'm not a Baz cheerleader by any means, and I share the general "Gatsby" skepticism here, but I submit: he's capable of better and "Australia" (for me) proves it.
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I can't stand Luhrman's movies, and have less use for Jay-Z . The guy tried to kill someone, stabbed him with a 5 inch blade, and he's now hailed as some role model?
Par for the course in Hollywood.
Kill over a hundred people, call black people lazy and useless, say if you had a nuclear weapon used use it against the U.S. -- OMG, you're a Hollywood hero, you even have supermodels and actors wearing clothing with your face on it.
Hugo Chavez your best despotic friend ever? That's okay! Hollywood doesn't mind, you'll get work.
Had a secret room down a long hall full of children's toys, a bed, and a censor at the beginning of the hall that alerts you when somebody is coming. Shucks, we all have one those! I can't tell you how many times I had little kids over to my alarm-rigged room for sleep over. Don't worry, just make songs a lot of people like.
Like to do things with underage girls? No problem, just flee the country to avoid sentencing, and people (and composers) will continue to work with you! They dont' care, it wasn't their kids.
These are, of course, the most memorable, but there's undoubtly more.
johnmullin:
And who would have thought that when the guy from Oingo Boingo got the job scoring the Pee Wee Herman movie in 1985 that it would wind up being as good as it was, or that it would kick off a continuously amazing career. It's important to keep an open mind about what good filmmusic can be and who can write it.
There's no comparrison to Elfman and Jay-Z. Or anybody else that came out of Oingo Boingo (Richard Gibbs, Steve Bartek).
Elfman had the background, though no formal training. People always assume his background was rock & roll in Oingo Boingo. In his own words, for eight years in the Mystic Knights, he did no rock & roll, and listened to nothing made after 1938; all the music made during that period by him was inspired people people like Duke Ellington, Igor Stravinsky, others. In fact, that wasn't even his start in music making, but rather the start was in Paris with his brother in "Le Grande Magic Circus, a kind of musical -- an avant-garde musical theatrical troup", after four months earlier picking up violin. "I started with the circus" he said, and later in the informative interview, says he wanted to run away with the circus. About ten years or music that was certainly not rock & roll. He had the experience to pull of a comedy film like "Pee Wee's Big Adventure", especially when you consider the scoring the series had.
(interview: http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=8577)
The only thing it appears he lacked to pull off the job, was film-like orchestration experience, but luckily people with experience like Lennie Niehaus and Shirley Walker were called in. As one famous composer once said (from memory here): "You're only as good as the people you surround yourself with."
So, what's Jay-Z's training or background? Well, according to his Wikipedia page, none. No schooling, no writing music. He sung/wrote some rap lyrics, would bang out some beats.
Okay, so who does he surround himself with? Well, it's not a pretty list.
If Hitler had lived, fled to another country to avoid war crimes charges and execution, and lived a long time and also wrote fantastic piano music, would we hire him to score a film? Come on, sometimes it's more about the right thing.
And I'm fairly certain Elfnman never shot his brother once in the shoudler when he was young, for trying to steal some of his jewelry.
I'm sure there's a dozen or mroe talented singers out there with music composition skills, that would love a chance to score something, but just aren't being offered it because they're not Jay-Z or the recently replaced on a film score Alicia Keys; they don't have the "name" to get the work.
And all those aisde, there's no shortage of starving composers out there in Hollywood who alreayd have the skill, spend a ton on schooling, and struggle to even get ONE assignment. They're there, waiting to get work, and Jay-Z gets a film score thrown at him like it was panties and he was on stage.
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Does it matter WHO scores Luhrmann's THE GREAT GATSBY? It's like complaining about who's dressing the corpse for the funeral! If the film isn't D.O.A., I'll eat my Hugo Friedhofer collection!
Yes, I know I haven't seen the film and should wait before I pass judgement yadda, yadda, yadda ..... but if something looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ..... it's a duck!
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Well I may not want to watch the movie but I could still be quite interested in seeing the type of score it gets.
Oh, I'll grant you that it's entirely possible to have a terrific score for a bad movie. Ennio Morricone's haunting score to BUTTERFLY comes immediately to mind.
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I happen to loathe Baz Luhrmann (after "Strictly Ballroom," which I enjoyed), but why the hell shouldn't Jay-Z score this film? Or at least, why should we assume he can't? Just because he hasn't already done it fifty times? Maybe he'll be a great fresh voice. Maybe.
------------------
This film was originally scheduled to open at Christmas, now delayed until May. It may well have hit serious problems, which is why there is some desperate music tinkering going on.
I was looking forward to this film but it may be a dud.
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Quick reply to Justin Boggin, who referenced my earlier post in his most recent post (which included a "Hitler" comparison, as all well-reasoned internet discussion often does):
-I made no comments about the quality of Jay-Z's work nor did I predict how his music for the picture might turn out. It could be terrible. I'll let you know if I ever see the movie (unlikely) or buy the CD (even less likely). My point was very strictly of the "don't condemn it before you hear it" variety. I'll stand by my earlier statement: "It's important to keep an open mind about what good filmmusic can be and who can write it."
-All the things you mentioned about Elfman's background were used mercilessly by his critics to tear him down as illegitimate and unworthy of scoring major features for the first 10 to 15 years that he was doing it. Often by other filmmusic professionals, many of whom were incapable of producing anything a 10th as interesting, but who might have, as you said, had "the skill, spen[t] a ton on schooling, and struggle to even get ONE assignment." There are a lot of people with that story in Hollywood trying to break into filmmusic, that's true... but when has Hollywood ever been a meritocracy?
-I know essentially nothing about Jay-Z's personal life. I'm not sure it's relevant to whatever music he might be writing for this picture, or why it means he shouldn't have the job.
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Quick reply to Justin Boggin, who referenced my earlier post in his most recent post (which included a "Hitler" comparison, as all well-reasoned internet discussion often does):
-I made no comments about the quality of Jay-Z's work nor did I predict how his music for the picture might turn out. It could be terrible. I'll let you know if I ever see the movie (unlikely) or buy the CD (even less likely). My point was very strictly of the "don't condemn it before you hear it" variety. I'll stand by my earlier statement: "It's important to keep an open mind about what good filmmusic can be and who can write it."
Okay, full relevent quote:
And I have zero problem with someone like Jay-Z writing this score or any other. I wouldn't have thought that when the Daft Punk guys were announced as the composers on TRON LEGACY that the result would be one of my favorite scores of the last few years. And who would have thought that when the guy from Oingo Boingo got the job scoring the Pee Wee Herman movie in 1985 that it would wind up being as good as it was, or that it would kick off a continuously amazing career. It's important to keep an open mind about what good filmmusic can be and who can write it.
It's directly on Jay-Z; you're giving a comparrison on whether somebody like him could score, by bringing up Daft Punk and Danny Elfman, based on apabilities. Otherwise this is the wierdest paragraph with oddly coincidental combinations I've ever seen.
Come off it, everybody knows who Hitler is. That's a tired internet thing to dismiss something just because it references Hitler.
-All the things you mentioned about Elfman's background were used mercilessly by his critics to tear him down as illegitimate and unworthy of scoring major features for the first 10 to 15 years that he was doing it.
Well, I guess we heard it differently. All that time I remember people people not using any of that, but rather pointing to his rock and roll; claiming he couldn't write music; and that his scoring it was ghostwritten by real composers.
Often by other filmmusic professionals, many of whom were incapable of producing anything a 10th as interesting, but who might have, as you said, had "the skill, spen[t] a ton on schooling, and struggle to even get ONE assignment."
Well, their opinions are just that: opinions. The proof is in the pudding.
There are a lot of people with that story in Hollywood trying to break into filmmusic, that's true... but when has Hollywood ever been a meritocracy?
Since has Hollywood been an -ocracy anything? Hollywood is what ever the directores, producers, and studios executives want it to be. You can get hired on your talent, or you can get hired for your name.
-I know essentially nothing about Jay-Z's personal life. I'm not sure it's relevant to whatever music he might be writing for this picture.
Yeah, that last line of mine was a shot at him, but I think of the big name composers with real talent, Herrmann, Rozsa, Goldsmith, Williams, Rosenman, Waxman, etc., and I can't recall any of them shooting their siblings, selling drugs. They may not have ad the most winning personalities, and may have had some harsh words here and there, but the true talent seems to go hand-in-hand with a certain general direction of living. Politics and religion aside.
And to anybody: there's been plenty of lousy films with good or great scores. This will suck the monkey balls that some of of us suspect, but that doesn't mean we can't have a good score out of it. All is not lost yet, we could still end up with the Armstrong score.
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You had to figure something like this would happen considering Luhrmann's use of pop music in Romeo+Juliet and Moulin Rouge.
It's being made in 3-D, an unnecessary and over the top creative choice for this story if there ever was one. Jay-Z is just par for the course.
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