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 Posted:   Jun 14, 2013 - 7:35 PM   
 By:   Dyfrynt   (Member)


It is just another case of a score that becomes a "holly grail" just because it was never released...


Actually it is one of the few scores that can truly be said to be a Holy Grail! Or at least include one.

 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2013 - 7:39 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

Actually it is one of the few scores that can truly be said to be a Holy Grail! Or at least include one.

Hey! That was actually quite funny!

 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2013 - 8:53 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

Actually it is one of the few scores that can truly be said to be a Holy Grail! Or at least include one.


I think that at least as much of a long-sought "grail" would be Boorman's longer cut of the film, which included something like an hour of footage depicting the knights' quests for the grail. I wonder if a longer cut will ever be released on disc (I think it's only been seen on British television). If the film was released in longer form, would that serve as enough of an impetus for a sountrack label to revisit the score?

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2013 - 10:55 PM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)

Well I like the "whole package". Didn't he orchestrate the classical pieces, or are they "library music"?

The classical pieces are the originals.

I for one wouldn't buy a disc of this score with the Wagner and Orff on it....I would buy one without them (at least if in stereo).

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2013 - 12:45 AM   
 By:   Bishop   (Member)

The truth is that Trevor Jones score for "Excalibur" is not that good.

It is just another case of a score that becomes a "holly grail" just because it was never released...


Dear Yor, I had already guessed that this special grail would be truly beyond your grasp, even though you're the board's resident hunter. wink

To me it's one (if not the) top-most grail. I saw the movie at a very early age (probably too early) and was completely overwhelmed by the music (I of course never had heard the classical pieces before wink) and the visuals. Everything got immediately burned into my mind forever. cool

Nowadays I can well understand why this "score" is not everyone's taste, but for me it's a dream.
My wife and I even had a part of Trevor's original score played during our wedding party and what a great moment it was!

So to say it with Merlin's own words:
A dream to some. A nightmare to others!

@Sigerson:
This extended cut sounds very intriguing.
Do you have any additional information about it?
What is your source? Did you see it yourself?

(Hopefully it will also feature a scene, where Yor tries desperately to convince Arthur and his Knights that in truth their "holly grail" is not that good ... razz)

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2013 - 3:18 AM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

@Sigerson:
This extended cut sounds very intriguing.
Do you have any additional information about it?
What is your source? Did you see it yourself?



I've never seen it and I can't find evidence anywhere online that anyone else has seen it. I thought there was an "alternate versions" page at IMDB years ago, where I got the meager information I posted (from memory) above, but I don't see that page at IMDB anymore. There is an argument in progress at IMDB's Excalibur (1981) message board as to the existence of an "extended cut." All seem to agree that Boorman's preferred version in the 2 hour 20 minute R-rated cut, to which he trimmed it himself. At Wikipedia, it still says:

"According to Boorman, the film was originally three hours long; among scenes that were deleted from the finished film but featured in one of the promotional trailers was a sequence where Lancelot rescued Guenevere from a forest bandit."

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2013 - 3:42 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

I can understand Jones' reluctance.

The film is magic, and has the deepest expose of the mythic stuff yet done, and its significance (Boorman was one of them thar Jungian blokes, as is well known) for youth. The slightly tongue-in-cheek feel of parts of the film is deliberate too.

But the MUSIC relies very heavily on the Wagner and Orff, and that's what the great mass of buyers out there in the real world remember and would want to hear.

The Orff was 'relevant' in this film because it's not a straight 'representative/historical' film, but a stylised allegory for the young man, just as it was in the days of Malory. Orff's 'forbidden songs' relate to the deeper layers of Celtic and occult myth that Merlin and his crew adhere to, under the 'new' Christian veneer, and the Wagner is from a universal mythic European heroic idea of that era. This isn't temp-track leftovers.

Now people will remember THAT, not Jones' work, and I say that as one who thinks Jones a good composer.

But he can either release the whole score, with all the rights problems of the original performances, (new performances would be seen as cheating in this context), or none of it. You guys who collect film-scores would gladly have his music alone, but I can't see either him or the bulk of real people out there thinking 'Excalibur' could ever be seen as 'representative' without the classical pieces.

And he may have aesthetic reasons too. I mean, those Wagner and Orff pieces, fine as they are, sitting betwixt his own cues, is an odd juxtaposition when heard OUT OF CONTEXT. The best compromise would be to release the score with the classics first, and Jones' entire incidental score after it.

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2013 - 3:47 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

I recall mainly a lot of Wagner and a bit of Orff -- incredibly annoying stuff, because each eruption took me out of the story and into the several (and quite different) musical and mythical worlds of Tristan and Parsifal and the Ring.


No, they take the music into the ONE universal mythical layer. That was his intent.

The only piece in the film I found grating was the strange performance at the Guinevere wedding ceremony, which was obviously trying to be a very 'dogged' and primitive attempt at liturgical music. The piece was authentic, the performance ... rrrgh.

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2013 - 4:42 AM   
 By:   Bishop   (Member)

Thanks Sigerson for your explanation (hope we'll get to see this cut some day!) and WILLIAMDMCCRUM for your very insightful comments - always a delight to read! smile

However what I still fail to understand is
MV has said that they had the rights to produce the soundtrack and he obviously he had access to a not too bad sounding copy of the score (even though it might not be all the material that exits).
So why then didn't he just release this score despite Mr. Jones say in this matter?
Are there more legal problems involved in this or was it done out of respect for the composer?

Please note: I mean no disrespect by aksing this question(s) and do not want to suggest in any way that it's acceptable to simply neglect the composer's wishes when producing a soundtrack - even if you've got all the rights to do so!

Oh and BTW here are the film credits for the Wagner and Orff parts:

"Prelude to Parsifal"
"Prelude to Tristan and Isolde"
and
"Siegfried's Funeral March" from "The Ring" by
Richard Wagner

Specially recorded by
The London Philharmonic Orchestra

Conducted by
Norman Del Mar

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

"O Fortuna" from "Carmina Burana" by
Carl Orff

Copyright 1937 by B. Schott's Söhne, Mainz (Germany)

Leipzig Radio and Symphony Orchestra and Chorus

Conducted by
Herbert kegel

Courtesy Polygram Records

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2013 - 9:16 AM   
 By:   The Beach Bum   (Member)

It's not "top drawer" Jones, but it has its moments. In fact I honestly think it is (overall) better-written than his Merlin score. His period source cues are very attractive (and to my ear better than Dark Crystal's "Pod Dance" -- which was probably mostly improvised by the players anyway). Excalibur's unused main and end titles are bold, heroic and certainly release-worthy, as is the beautiful choral cue for the wedding scene (which was butchered on the "unmentionable", having been ripped from the film itself).

 
 Posted:   Jun 16, 2013 - 4:11 PM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Oh and BTW here are the film credits for the Wagner and Orff parts

Thanks for answering my question. smile

 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2013 - 5:44 AM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

My wife and I even had a part of Trevor's original score played during our wedding party and what a great moment it was!

Hey! Androids are not suposed to get married!

It is FORBIDEN!!!

 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2013 - 12:46 PM   
 By:   Bishop   (Member)

@ solium
You're welcome!
Actually it's something I always anted to know myself, yet for some odd reason I never thought about looking at the film credits itself. roll eyes
Luckily this thread finally put me on the right track! smile


@ Yor
Hey! Androids are not suposed to get married!

It is FORBIDEN!!!


Dear friend, that's the tragedy isn't it?
You com from the future and yet you still live in the past. wink

 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2013 - 1:14 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

Bishop takes YOR.

Check.

;-)

 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2013 - 1:30 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

Dear friend, that's the tragedy isn't it?
You com from the future and yet you still live in the past. wink


In the future androids are quite nasty and dangerous.

YOR almost got killed while trying to rid the world of their threat!

But in the end YOR prevailed!



 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2013 - 3:19 PM   
 By:   Warunsun   (Member)

In a time when we can have 2CD and 3CD score releases (or re-releases) I think many would totally be up for Excalibur. I would prefer it with all the music used (even the Library stuff). I missed this before and would buy it. It is going for far too much on the used market and I am leery of ending up with a boot.

Same for the Dune (1984) full score.

Thanks.

 
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