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 Posted:   Jun 25, 2013 - 11:29 AM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

There is always value in hearing an OST version, especially under the composer's own baton. But Korngold's orchestral textures are so far beyond the capacities of 1940s recording technology that I wonder if an archival recording the the best way to appreciate his music.

Since it's the way the movie score was originally presented, there is infinite "value" in hearing the OST version.

There are exceptions, but re-recordings of score presentations are often way off base on critical musical passages. Some are excruciatingly and inexcusably off the mark as they could have been mixed better.

 
 Posted:   Jun 26, 2013 - 1:53 AM   
 By:   OnlyGoodMusic   (Member)

There is always value in hearing an OST version, especially under the composer's own baton. But Korngold's orchestral textures are so far beyond the capacities of 1940s recording technology that I wonder if an archival recording the the best way to appreciate his music.

Since it's the way the movie score was originally presented, there is infinite "value" in hearing the OST version.

There are exceptions, but re-recordings of score presentations are often way off base on critical musical passages. Some are excruciatingly and inexcusably off the mark as they could have been mixed better.


Film music of this kind is a sub genre of classical music, which itself is open to interpretation with every new performance or recording. That's why it lives and breathes.

The original tempi on the OSTs were dictated(!) by the click track, not by the music's inherent structure. Hardly the ideal way to make music.

Plus, the sound of 1940s soundtracks, even with careful remastering, obscures too many details in the orchestration. This is particularly true of Korngold's opulent, often translucent arrangements.

 
 Posted:   Jun 26, 2013 - 2:05 AM   
 By:   JohnnyG   (Member)

There is always value in hearing an OST version, especially under the composer's own baton. But Korngold's orchestral textures are so far beyond the capacities of 1940s recording technology that I wonder if an archival recording the the best way to appreciate his music.

Since it's the way the movie score was originally presented, there is infinite "value" in hearing the OST version.

There are exceptions, but re-recordings of score presentations are often way off base on critical musical passages. Some are excruciatingly and inexcusably off the mark as they could have been mixed better.


Film music of this kind is a sub genre of classical music, which itself is open to interpretation with every new performance or recording. That's why it lives and breathes.

The original tempi on the OSTs were dictated(!) by the click track, not by the music's inherent structure. Hardly the ideal way to make music.

Plus, the sound of 1940s soundtracks, even with careful remastering, obscures too many details in the orchestration. This is particularly true of Korngold's opulent, often translucent arrangements.



True. It's only a matter of the right person conducting the right orchestra and voilĂ , a modern recording to cherish!

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 26, 2013 - 2:10 AM   
 By:   Stefan Gritscher   (Member)

There is always value in hearing an OST version, especially under the composer's own baton. But Korngold's orchestral textures are so far beyond the capacities of 1940s recording technology that I wonder if an archival recording the the best way to appreciate his music.

Since it's the way the movie score was originally presented, there is infinite "value" in hearing the OST version.

There are exceptions, but re-recordings of score presentations are often way off base on critical musical passages. Some are excruciatingly and inexcusably off the mark as they could have been mixed better.


Film music of this kind is a sub genre of classical music, which itself is open to interpretation with every new performance or recording. That's why it lives and breathes.

The original tempi on the OSTs were dictated(!) by the click track, not by the music's inherent structure. Hardly the ideal way to make music.

Plus, the sound of 1940s soundtracks, even with careful remastering, obscures too many details in the orchestration. This is particularly true of Korngold's opulent, often translucent arrangements.

To my knowledge Korngold NEVER used any form of click track...

 
 Posted:   Jun 26, 2013 - 2:22 AM   
 By:   OnlyGoodMusic   (Member)

Whether you actually use it or not, you're still a slave of the clock. A few composers were professional conductors who didn't need the click track to hit the sync points, but the results are much the same.

 
 Posted:   Jun 26, 2013 - 2:26 AM   
 By:   OnlyGoodMusic   (Member)

True. It's only a matter of the right person conducting the right orchestra and voilĂ , a modern recording to cherish!

Of course, some re-recordings don't do justice to the music (I avoid saying "to the original", because that's not necessarily wanted, as argued by me above). I'll never forget how shocked I was when I heard my first re-recording of "The Prisoner of Zenda", by the now infamous Leroy Holmes. Today, I can laugh about it.

But the Gerhardt recordings e.g. often differ substantially in tempi and phrasing from the original recordings, not because Gerhardt wouldn't have been able to stick to the version on the tapes, but because he wanted to make music and emphasize that film music has a life of its own. Well, some has.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 26, 2013 - 7:39 AM   
 By:   waxmanman35   (Member)

The original tempi on the OSTs were dictated(!) by the click track, not by the music's inherent structure. Hardly the ideal way to make music.

The click track is prepared from the music's rhythm mirroring the composer's score as an aid for the conductor to precisely synch the music to the film. It's not prepared from the film to retrofit the music, as you suggest.

And all accounts report that Korngold never used any mechanical aids when he conducted his film scores. What I assume you meant is that regardless, a musical limitation of most film scores is its subordinated nature, the need to compose to images of specific length and mood. Film composers don't have the freedom to develop musical ideas as with concert works. That's probably why film music has been denigrated as "music for people with short attention spans."

 
 Posted:   Jun 26, 2013 - 8:47 AM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

There is always value in hearing an OST version, especially under the composer's own baton. But Korngold's orchestral textures are so far beyond the capacities of 1940s recording technology that I wonder if an archival recording the the best way to appreciate his music.

Since it's the way the movie score was originally presented, there is infinite "value" in hearing the OST version.

There are exceptions, but re-recordings of score presentations are often way off base on critical musical passages. Some are excruciatingly and inexcusably off the mark as they could have been mixed better.


Film music of this kind is a sub genre of classical music, which itself is open to interpretation with every new performance or recording. That's why it lives and breathes.

The original tempi on the OSTs were dictated(!) by the click track, not by the music's inherent structure. Hardly the ideal way to make music.

Plus, the sound of 1940s soundtracks, even with careful remastering, obscures too many details in the orchestration. This is particularly true of Korngold's opulent, often translucent arrangements.


1. If a re-recording is presenting itself as the original score, cue-by-cue, and features generous excerpts of film art, it should ATTEMPT to stay as close to the film performance as possible. If it is an "interpretation", it should drop the pretense of presenting the original film program.

2. The composers wrote music to accompany the visual...the click track was a guide akin to a metronome. The music's "inherent structure" was inspired by the film and according to the film's pace.

3. The composers in the 1940s were well aware of the restrictions of the then-state-of-the-art sound recording. It's acually amazing how many scores from the 30s and 40s have held up beautifully, and with great detail. It might be said that the archival presentation of Korngold scores on the Rhino label may lead one to presume that the sound there was the standard. It was not. Korngold knew exactly how his music would sound on the screen. There's no reason to presume that a very clean presentation of original tracks would be a disappointment.

4. Really, is this bashing of original soundtrack presentations necessary just because someone deigned to suggest the FSM release of the original tracks to "King's Row"?

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 26, 2013 - 10:56 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

The composers in the 1940s were well aware of the restrictions of the then-state-of-the-art sound recording.. . . Korngold knew exactly how his music would sound on the screen. There's no reason to presume that a very clean presentation of original tracks would be a disappointment.

Korngold was often disappointed by how his music sounded on screen. Hence his famous quip: "A film composer's immortality lasts from the recording stage to the dubbing room." In any case, I'm certainly not bashing the old tracks. They are valuable and fascinating documents. It's just that Korngold's music in particular benefits enormously from modern audio capabilities.

 
 Posted:   Jun 26, 2013 - 11:42 AM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

The composers in the 1940s were well aware of the restrictions of the then-state-of-the-art sound recording.. . . Korngold knew exactly how his music would sound on the screen. There's no reason to presume that a very clean presentation of original tracks would be a disappointment.

Korngold was often disappointed by how his music sounded on screen. Hence his famous quip: "A film composer's immortality lasts from the recording stage to the dubbing room." In any case, I'm certainly not bashing the old tracks. They are valuable and fascinating documents. It's just that Korngold's music in particular benefits enormously from modern audio capabilities.


And I love contemporary recordings of his music, concertized. It's the track-by-track "original score" recordings that get under my skin sometimes.

 
 Posted:   Nov 11, 2013 - 2:20 PM   
 By:   Loren   (Member)

Here's another question for Kornold people.

Anybody knows the exact address of the Brno house - now a bank - where Korngold was born?
Is there in Brno some kind museum dedicated to the composer?

 
 Posted:   Nov 12, 2013 - 7:23 AM   
 By:   orbital   (Member)

Here's another question for Kornold people.

Anybody knows the exact address of the Brno house - now a bank - where Korngold was born?


Only recently I did a little "internet reading" on Korngold and seeing your question I have remembered this site here:
http://www.korngold-society.org/EWK_Hauser.html

It says "Koliste 1" as address. You can even check out that plaque on Google Street View:
https://maps.google.de/maps?q=brno+Koliste+1&ie=UTF8&ll=49.200053,16.608386&spn=0.001036,0.002642&sll=49.200315,16.608230&layer=c&cbp=13,5.85,,0,-18.46&cbll=49.200159,16.608224&gl=de&hnear=Koli%C5%A1t%C4%9B+1856%2F1,+602+00+Brno,+Tschechische+Republik&t=m&panoid=inRlLc4DvUUdOEM16V2hew&z=19

 
 Posted:   Nov 12, 2013 - 8:34 AM   
 By:   Erik Woods   (Member)

Well, I for one LOVE the Naxos The Sea Hawk album. So much so that I think it's one of the finest re-recordings of all time.



http://www.cinematicsound.net/re-recordings-6-the-sea-hawk/

Looks like most here wouldn't agree but each to their own.

-Erik-

 
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