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 Posted:   Jun 27, 2013 - 10:32 AM   
 By:   Ed Lachmann   (Member)

I come from the LP era, and have kept most of my rather large collection of them more as mementos than actual played media. My collection of CDs dwarfs that earlier collection substantially. Unlike some, I am still enthusiastic about CDs, love their convenient size, find the liner notes are much better than they ever were in LPs and abhor the idea of having "digital files" in place of a physical collection. I was given two CDs from a music producer friend in Rio de Janeiro back in 1982, long before they were actually items one could purchase in a store. They were test pressings he was given after a trip to Tokyo. I recently pulled them out and played them and found they still played perfectly. Some uninformed idiots rant about how the CD has some imaginary "shelf life" which these 30 year old discs seems to disprove. Mistakes were made with bad glues and substandard pressings but I guess that is to be expected with any product. I HATE digital files only situations, especially with the new trendy "streaming" bull, which is a way for the studios to make one pay EVERY TIME one views a film rather than allowing it to be owned. The day physical media like CDs "go away" is the day I go away from whatever this is, a hobby or "interest" . I will be content to play what I own and am convinced that they will be passed along and probably be playing just fine long after I'm ten feet under.

 
 Posted:   Jun 27, 2013 - 11:04 AM   
 By:   Peter Randall   (Member)

I haven't made the big switch yet either - I did easily switch from LP to CD and never looked back - still hold the few sdtks that haven't made it from LP to CD, but other than that I'm CD all the way. I have been doing a bit of work at comparing lossless tracks to mp3 along with the old .wav format - is anyone porting their iTunes library through their home sound system, and if so, how's the quality?

I've been thinking about ripping all my discs into lossless and then listening to them via my home system, but I'm worried about the sound quality - anyone done it, and how's it sound?

 
 Posted:   Jun 27, 2013 - 11:41 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

I am still enthusiastic about CDs, love their convenient size, find the liner notes are much better than they ever were in LPs


Booklets that are the same size as a single piece of toilet paper, housed in a 2¢ piece of lowest quality, easily-cracked and scratched plastic, aren't my idea of "better".

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 27, 2013 - 12:33 PM   
 By:   Ian J.   (Member)

I suppose you could call me a borderline digital immigrant.

I remember in the 1980s, before CDs had caught on in the UK, that most of my purchases were either LPs or tape. One thing I remember with most loathing was the poor quality of those analogue mediums. LPs would have rough patches that hissed on every revolution, tapes would wow and flutter from the get go, etc. Once I could get hold of CDs, I joyfully consigned LPs and tapes to the bin (except where no CD existed).

Will the same happen with my CDs? Unlikely. First off, there are no manufacturing defects on my CDs, and even if there were, I'd just return any such discs for replacements immediately after purchase, knowing that eventually I could get a flawless disc. Secondly, the chances of all of my CDs getting high definition download releases are very low. Film soundtracks appear to be just too 'niche' to get that treatment.

But I rarely listen to a CD directly today. Most of my listening takes place in less than ideal conditions (where there is other noise around), so high quality MP3s suffice.

So, to the OP's question: am I then 'liberated' from the CD? To which my answer is not really. I use my CDs as a backup source if nothing else, and the extra details in the booklets are all there as well, I haven't gone to the extreme of scanning that lot into files on my computer, it would just take way too long.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 27, 2013 - 1:15 PM   
 By:   CinemaScope   (Member)

I am still enthusiastic about CDs, love their convenient size, find the liner notes are much better than they ever were in LPs


Booklets that are the same size as a single piece of toilet paper, housed in a 2¢ piece of lowest quality, easily-cracked and scratched plastic, aren't my idea of "better".


What, becouse it's the same size as a bit of bog paper it's not worth having, not worth reading, that's such a stupid comment. And who cares if the case gets scratched or cracked, its job is to protect the disc.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 27, 2013 - 1:20 PM   
 By:   MusicMad   (Member)

...

I've been thinking about ripping all my discs into lossless and then listening to them via my home system, but I'm worried about the sound quality - anyone done it, and how's it sound?


As someone who has done this with his entire collection (save 2 CDs which won't rip properly) I can assure you that you can't tell the difference, using Lossless.

Initially I held the music in WMA Lossless format on a Seagate HDD but this has a couple of drawbacks. The sound is not a problem but to use the HDD I needed to have the PC on and the HDD has a habit of going to sleep when not in use (I don't know whether this a problem with the brand, otherwise the drive is wonderful).

But then I moved over to NAS which acts independently of the PC and whilst there is extra effort involved (converting the WMA files to FLAC Lossless) I can't recommend the result too highly.

There are a number of products on the market to stream the digital files back to your home hi-fi (I use Logitech which is ridiculously cheap) and the results are outstanding.

Where the digital file is MP3 then there is a noticeable degredation of sound when played through the Logitech Touch ~ Hi-Fi amp/Speakers.

Mitch.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 27, 2013 - 2:09 PM   
 By:   Ed Lachmann   (Member)

Booklets that are the same size as a single piece of toilet paper, housed in a 2¢ piece of lowest quality, easily-cracked and scratched plastic, aren't my idea of "better".

So, you'd like the booklets bigger and taking up more space? Plus, scratched replaceable plastic holders preserve the paper inside, unlike LPs where the paper had no protection and one had to use additional plastic sleeves to keep the cover art from rubbing off. I remember the sort of info on the back of the old LPs and it was nothing like the wonderful in depth material included in the new CD booklets we're very spoiled to have at our fingertips. Then there's digital, which is just a slice of territory on a whirring hard drive. Talk about lack of romance! Like I said, I've got thirty year old CDs that still play on the new system I presently own. I would have gone through four of five hard drives and God knows how many computers and operating systems to arrive at the same destination.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 27, 2013 - 4:22 PM   
 By:   FalkirkBairn   (Member)

I grew up with LPs and I remember having vinyl soundtrack albums well into the 1980s. I don't think that I had any problems moving from vinyl to CDs when CDs became more popular and soundtrack CDs became more widely available.

I don't really have an affection for the old LP (I don't have any of them left) and thinking back to my LP collection I am in many ways glad that they fell by the wayside. Ease of use was a prime plus for the move to CD: placing a disc in the player for the whole running time of the album was great, and being able to programme a running order that followed the chronological order was an option that I used frequently. I never saw/heard any change in the quality of the music when I made the switch but the improvement in the sound of the medium with CD was marked. No more crackles of the LP and no more scratches affecting the music (pops and clicks I still hear today when listening to CDs of old LPs that had these defects.) Personally, I can't see why people want to go back to vinyl and risk ruining their listening experience with a scratch.

Making the transition to digital files was just as painless in terms of the quality of music - I am one of the lucky ones who doesn't really notice that much difference between CD and digital music. The convenience is there with digital: I see an album, I want it and I can have it in the space of a few minutes. Lower costs (CD itself and no shipping costs) is also a bonus. I do miss the physical presence of the CD though. Receiving the CD in the post, opening it and holding the physical disc somehow imprints on my mind that I actually have the disc; I can picture it in my mind's eye. Digital albums are just a square of artwork in a online store's web page or an entry in my iTunes or MediaMonkey playlist or my OrangeCD database. Lack of artwork and liner notes in general is not an issue as most albums available as digital versions tend to have minimal information in their booklets so that's no great loss.

I am waiting for the technology where scenes can be projected on walls in your home or a wall is made up of one huge TV display so I can have all my albums on virtual shelves and, with touchscreen technology in place, all I would need to do is touch the screen and my album plays anywhere in the house.

 
 Posted:   Jun 27, 2013 - 5:08 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

Booklets that are the same size as a single piece of toilet paper, housed in a 2¢ piece of lowest quality, easily-cracked and scratched plastic, aren't my idea of "better".

So, you'd like the booklets bigger and taking up more space? Plus, scratched replaceable plastic holders preserve the paper inside, unlike LPs where the paper had no protection and one had to use additional plastic sleeves to keep the cover art from rubbing off. I remember the sort of info on the back of the old LPs and it was nothing like the wonderful in depth material included in the new CD booklets we're very spoiled to have at our fingertips. Then there's digital, which is just a slice of territory on a whirring hard drive. Talk about lack of romance! Like I said, I've got thirty year old CDs that still play on the new system I presently own. I would have gone through four of five hard drives and God knows how many computers and operating systems to arrive at the same destination.




I prefer excellent, far more flexible online notes in PDF form (like Lukas' fine FSM examples) over any toilet paper-sized booklets.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 27, 2013 - 5:48 PM   
 By:   Ed Lachmann   (Member)

I would certainly prefer the convenient toilet paper-sized booklet along with the conventional CD.

 
 Posted:   Jun 27, 2013 - 10:19 PM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

I would certainly prefer the convenient toilet paper-sized booklet along with the conventional CD.

Same here. One digital hiccup and all those downloads and their PDF liner notes are history.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 28, 2013 - 4:24 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Thank you for the replies.

It's interesting that so many of you seem to have parted with your LPs so easily, but would never do so with your CDs. I'm having a hard time understanding this. LPs offer something different that cannot easily be digitized, while a CD can quickly and conveniently be cloned. I would give up my CDs before my LPs, because even the CDs take up lots of space, and I can listen to lossless extractions. I wonder why I seem to view this so differently from many of you who responded.

 
 Posted:   Jun 28, 2013 - 4:36 AM   
 By:   johnbijl   (Member)

Thank you for the replies.

It's interesting that so many of you seem to have parted with your LPs so easily, but would never do so with your CDs.


I think that might be because of the psychology you mentioned in the first post. I reckon that most of us are 20-45 years; grown up on cd's more than on lp's. I know I am.

As for the original question. Yes, I do buy cd's. But the only time it comes out of the jewel case is when it's going in the computer to put it lossless on my (backuped) iTunes server. I scan the booklets. The cd's go into the trophy room, so to speak.

When digital files come as cd-quality or better and all buys come with artwork and liner notes as pdf or iTunes LP (that would be cool), I will stop buying plastic and paper.

 
 Posted:   Jun 28, 2013 - 8:28 AM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

Thank you for the replies.

It's interesting that so many of you seem to have parted with your LPs so easily, but would never do so with your CDs. I'm having a hard time understanding this. LPs offer something different that cannot easily be digitized, while a CD can quickly and conveniently be cloned. I would give up my CDs before my LPs, because even the CDs take up lots of space, and I can listen to lossless extractions. I wonder why I seem to view this so differently from many of you who responded.


Speaking only for myself: Having grown up in the era of LPs, and having had to contend with warpage, scratches (inevitable even when well cared for), poor vinyl quality etc., the arrival of the CD was for me a wish come true. For the most part permanent, less susceptible to careless scratches that would be sufficient to affect the playback, improving sound quality (compared to the first CDs that is), and much less of a storage issue (volume-wise), while still tangible and with artwork (admittedly smaller) but much more information about the music, composer etc. in liner notes than ever fit on the back of an LP... I loved my LPs for their warmer sound but they were my "problem children." Happy with my CDs now and not planning ever to go to digital downloads.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 28, 2013 - 2:09 PM   
 By:   Ed Lachmann   (Member)

Totally agree with Dana on all points. A main reason for my sticking with CDs and keeping the LPs as something of a nostalgic art collection has more to do with a beloved Joao Nogueira samba LP that I literally "played to death". Even taking great care with my needles and replacing them when needed and keeping the LP in a plastic lined sleeve and handling it always with the utmost care, after a few hundred plays, poor Joao lost all his high end and was a shadow of his former self. Small pops and crackles weren't so bad in a samba record, but they did distract in the quieter moments of TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD. And even brand new LPs always had pops and crackles. They did have better tone, that I'll give you, but the degradation through overplay factor was unavoidable. I have very old CDs that still play like I bought them yesterday.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 28, 2013 - 2:20 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

I've learned to not get rid of anything. Nostalgic aspects aside, there is stuff I have on LP that will never be reissued on CD.

(It remains to be seen if everything currently available on CD will be reissued on non-physical formats. So it's like a repeating issue every time a new format comes along.)

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 28, 2013 - 4:32 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

...not planning ever to go to digital downloads.

Oh, I'm not in favor of digital downloads.

I'm talking about making lossless clones of the CDs you buy, and then, to save space, getting rid of the CDs and just having audio files. I am seriously considering this.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 28, 2013 - 4:43 PM   
 By:   Traveling Matt   (Member)

I've learned to not get rid of anything. Nostalgic aspects aside, there is stuff I have on LP that will never be reissued on CD.

(It remains to be seen if everything currently available on CD will be reissued on non-physical formats. So it's like a repeating issue every time a new format comes along.)


Good point. The same holds true for VHS-DVD-Bluray. Some stuff is still on VHS only while others will likely never make it past DVD.

 
 Posted:   Jun 28, 2013 - 4:52 PM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

...not planning ever to go to digital downloads.

Oh, I'm not in favor of digital downloads.

I'm talking about making lossless clones of the CDs you buy, and then, to save space, getting rid of the CDs and just having audio files. I am seriously considering this.


No way! They'll have to pry my CDs from my cold, dead fingers!

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 28, 2013 - 4:54 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)



No way! They'll have to pry my CDs from my cold, dead fingers!


But I don't want your CDs.

I just want lossless digital files.

 
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