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 Posted:   Nov 8, 2013 - 3:48 PM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

Its very simple -- when dealing with multiple releases of a tv show why bother putting the same theme on yet again when you can put NEW music on it.
Case in point -- Battlestar Galactica -- We didn't put the theme on Seasons 3 or 4.
MV


Except that Silva admitted to me via Twitter that they "couldn't" include it. It does seem like a rights issue more thananything else. Unlike Galactica the theme often changes from season to season. This time it changed mid-season.

 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2013 - 11:26 PM   
 By:   JB Fan   (Member)

I thought I read somewhere that Gold was never happy with having to use the original DOCTOR WHO theme at all. Apparently he would have preferred to write his own theme music, but was overruled by producers (and fans wouldn't be too happy either, I imagine).
One of the few places he had control was on the CDs and he was perfectly happy to leave off the theme. But I'm reading between the lines, so I may be wrong.


Maybe you're right, but I think that if Mr. Gold was never happy with original theme, he would never composed different arrangements so many times and would prefer to use his first arrangement from Series 1 to 7. Or you think that producers ordered him: "This will be new season, you must compose new theme arrangement!" and Mr. Gold with deep aversion begin compose theme's new variation?
As for my ears, I hear respect and tribute to original theme in every it's variation! I can't imagine that they were composed by the man, who hate that theme (or this is another proof that Mr. Gold is very talented person, who can work with every material, even with music that he hate! wink ).

 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2013 - 12:02 AM   
 By:   Tom Guernsey   (Member)

I thought I read somewhere that Gold was never happy with having to use the original DOCTOR WHO theme at all. Apparently he would have preferred to write his own theme music, but was overruled by producers (and fans wouldn't be too happy either, I imagine).
One of the few places he had control was on the CDs and he was perfectly happy to leave off the theme. But I'm reading between the lines, so I may be wrong.


I thought that's what John Debney said when he was scoring the TV movie... I don't ever recall reading that Murray Gold made such comments. I get the impression he has quite enjoyed arranging and re-arranging the theme. Not like he was obliged to use it in his underscore anyway.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2013 - 3:12 AM   
 By:   JDH   (Member)

Its very simple -- when dealing with multiple releases of a tv show why bother putting the same theme on yet again when you can put NEW music on it.

Case in point -- Battlestar Galactica -- We didn't put the theme on Seasons 3 or 4.

MV


I think that's a wise choice if a theme remains the same, but if it receives a major rearrangement, as is the case with Doctor Who, then, as a customer, I would feel let down if the newer version is left off the CD. So, say, if Newsroom had resulted in Lost-style season soundtracks, I would have wanted the two versions of the theme, one starting each. Actually, if Newsroom ever happens, I hope both themes are on there!

The new Who theme, if used, would be perfect for a standalone Day of the Doctor disc, so I'm still hoping they left it off the last one to make for a more complete 50th birthday soundtrack. If the policy is one release for each version of the theme, that might explain why they said to Spymaster they "couldn't" use it on the season 7 disc...

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2013 - 12:03 PM   
 By:   tarasis   (Member)

Its very simple -- when dealing with multiple releases of a tv show why bother putting the same theme on yet again when you can put NEW music on it.

Case in point -- Battlestar Galactica -- We didn't put the theme on Seasons 3 or 4.

MV


I'd agree except that they do change the theme every couple of seasons, and the newest version was rather excellent. Just putting it once on one of the two most recent albums would have been great.

 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2013 - 12:37 PM   
 By:   Gary S.   (Member)

I'd love to get that boxed set, but haven't seen it anywhere for pre-order, sale, etc.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2013 - 3:54 PM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

To clarify: Silva's precise words to me re: the new theme arrangement were: "It's not available to us"

Make of that what you will :-(

 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2013 - 5:54 PM   
 By:   Other Tallguy   (Member)

I thought I read somewhere that Gold was never happy with having to use the original DOCTOR WHO theme at all. Apparently he would have preferred to write his own theme music, but was overruled by producers (and fans wouldn't be too happy either, I imagine).
One of the few places he had control was on the CDs and he was perfectly happy to leave off the theme. But I'm reading between the lines, so I may be wrong.


There's no reason to have it on the season 3 or 6 CDs or the Chirstmas CDs because it was the same as on the season 1/2, 4, and 5 CDs.

But every time there has been a new variation of the theme Gold has had it on the CD. Until now.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 13, 2013 - 3:38 AM   
 By:   paulhickling   (Member)

First off, Murray Gold has never has had a problem with the famous Ron Grainer theme, used since Doctor Who began in 1963. On the contrary, he LOVES it. He's a massive fan of both the series and it's music through the years. That much is obvious reading his sleeve notes and various interviews. Same goes for his predecessors in the scoring stakes. He pays tribute to the BBC Radiophonic Workshop's Malcom Clarke in the notes for The Specials release.

Infact he, along with the series producers were originally happy to use the original Delia Derbyshire/Workshop recording on the episodes at the start of the revival back in 2005, until all realised it might need beefing up to match the modern sound of the new series scores. He and those producers have mentioned this too in those many interviews.

All the major arrangements of the theme throughout the Classic Series were released as produced, and the same goes with the revived series on the cd soundtracks, with the exception of the very latest, which I believe started with The Snowmen Christmas special. I have to say at this point that I don't miss it, though would have it for completism, as I personally think it's Murray's weakest one, with no punch and a virtually missing baseline (the dum-de-dums!). It played very badly up to the pre-title sequence punchlines this year. The worst case in point the return of the Ice Warriors. Great moment as the fist came through the ice 'prison', with a muted, understated back-up from the theme as the titles crash. It may be it's just this one that's “unavailable” to Silva. Maybe, just maybe Murray and Ben (Foster, arranger/conducter) agree with me! smile

Otherwise I've warmed to them all up to now, including the Series 5 one which starts with a cool, exciting new non-Grainer (and therefore quite controversial with some fans) intro. My only problem is that apart from the closing track of the Series 1-2 cd, we have had no 'full' versions of the later arrangements. Then again the music for Series 1 to 4 is LONG overdue a two disc expanded re-release

What HAS been mentioned, and I believe assumed to be 'rights issues', is the use of the Grainer theme within the incidental scoring. The only time this has been done on a large scale was in the 1980s when the BBC Radiophonic Workshop took over the scoring of the episodes, where Peter Howell and Paddy Kingsland in particular made extensive use, sometimes very effectively. Watch the latter's handling of Fourth Doctor Tom Baker's regeneration for evidence at the climax of Season 18's 'Logopolis'.

This is, I believe, where people are making the assumption that Murray Gold has some sort of objection. If he has any at all, it's using it within his own scores. Though if the trailers for the 50th Anniversary Special, 'The Day of the Doctor' are anything to go by, it might be showing up big style here too. And cracking versions they are too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hRy2N2CMhQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mkq8pnvsnQg (Around the 19 sec mark)

And if they have been recorded specifically for the trailers, then lets have them on cd too please!

 
 Posted:   Nov 13, 2013 - 4:45 PM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

Well, obviously I read too much into (or remembered incorrectly) Gold's comment about the original theme. I picked up on the one negative thing he said, forgetting the positive.
Here's the exact quote:
"The more you listen to the original Who theme, the better it sounds, and the more you read about the meticulous process that went into assembling it, the more the legend of the Who theme gains in stature: WHICH IS WHY I WANTED NOTHING TO DO WITH IT." (emphasis mine-from the first CD liner notes)
So I was right about his not wanting to have to work with it, but I was wrong as to why.

I do think it is noteworthy that the original theme almost never finds its way into the scores proper.
I'm sure some music nerd there can point out some examples (but I said ALMOST never).

As to why the theme isn't on all the CDs...our friend from LA LA Land Records hit the nail on the head, I think.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 14, 2013 - 2:17 AM   
 By:   paulhickling   (Member)

Yes, reading those notes, to me he's saying the original is perfect as it is, and only caved in to 'beefing it up' when he listened to how it played over the end credits on the finished (first) episode of the revival back in 2005.

With the Classic Series (1963 – 1989), that original Delia Derbyshire of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop, arrangement remained virtually the same from the first episode in 1963 until the end of the 17th season in 1980. A couple of minor changes include the familiar 'sting' intro still often heard, which started in the very early 70s.

The first major (and controversial) rearrangement was in 1980 when Peter Howell, also of the Workshop, produced the first synthesiser version. This lasted until replaced for one season in 1986 by Dominic Glynn, which in turn gave way to one by Keff McCulloch in 1997 for three seasons which ended in 1989. The latter two are, in my opinion the weakest of them all.

As we know, the first orchestral version appeared from John Debney for the ill fated TV Movie of 1996, which interestingly remains the only one to start with the middle eight.

Murray Gold's first arrangement starts with sampling the Derbyshire one, adding layers of orchestral elements on top. For me this is the most successful new Who version. But we have had every Murray Gold rearrangement since on the Silva Screen cds, which essentially is the 'rock version' from new Series 4, and the Matt Smith era one from Series 5 onwards. Maybe Murray doesn't think the very latest one from The Snowmen on is significantly different to what we've had since Series 5. Silva saying it was not made available to them indeed suggests Murray, Ben Foster or just as likely Jake Jackson, the editor who compiles the cds simply held it back! My opinion is: I don't blame them! smile

So yeah, La La Land Records is right about there being no point in putting the SAME arrangement on different releases, but tarasis is also correct in stating we've had a few different ones since Gold started on the show, and we HAVE had each one on cd where appropriate so far EXCEPT the very latest. Lastly, Ray you are absolutely bang on saying Murray has never used the theme WITHIN the sores. Many fans have wondered why, after some of the Radiphonic Workshop members did so, so successfully in the eighties. And this is where I think Murray made a deliberate creative choice of his own not to.

That is.... 'till now. Possibly... He might just have revised his stance (looking at my samples in my previous post) as a treat for the fans for the Anniversary Special. But of course we'll have to wait and see. Not long now. Simultaneous international broadcast folks.

 
 Posted:   Nov 14, 2013 - 6:36 AM   
 By:   Other Tallguy   (Member)

Gold gets close to the Who theme: I think The Doctor’s Theme from season one is based on that same kind of “ooooEEEEEooooo” sound. And three notes of the theme can definitely be heard in the beginning of Westminster Bridge (the first music heard in the new series).

The only time I recall hearing the theme in classic Who was in Leisure Hive (where we shouted “It’s the theme! It’s the theme!”) and at the beginning of The Five Doctors. But that’s just my memory.

I know the Snowmen opening isn’t THAT different from season 5, but I wants it (wasnntssssss itt…) anyway.

I guess my faves are Howell, Derbyshire, Gold1, Gold4, and Gold5. I quite like the Glynn bass line, but the synth on the middle eight is awful. I can’t stand McCulloch. David Arnold did I nice version. I think Gold is the first composer to make the bass line work with an orchestra.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 14, 2013 - 7:32 AM   
 By:   paulhickling   (Member)

Leisure Hive has a great score by Peter Howell. The first one infact since the BBC Radiophonic Workshop took over scoring duties from Dudley Simpson. The Grainer theme is DEFINITELY referenced in the next story on from that, Meglos from both Howell and Paddy Kingsland. Kingsland puts it right to the fore at the very end of Logopolis for Tom Baker's regeneration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWxld5w-SXU At about 25 secs.

The Five Doctors has the baseline so close to the Delia Derbyshire original it sounds sampled just as the First Doctor is scooped up from his own time stream at the start of the special. Of course the end titles has a mix of the Derbyshire arrangement and the Howell one on the closing titles of the story, as a celebratory nod to the past.

 
 Posted:   Nov 14, 2013 - 11:02 PM   
 By:   JB Fan   (Member)

Of course we don't get track-list yet, so lets fantasize a little.

I really hope that for 11-discs Box-set Silva will try their best and get licence for every Doctor Theme, used in series (long, "concert version" - call it how you want). So this list will be:
  • Original 1963 version (maybe 2 version - with version from first pilot episode)
  • New 1967 arrangement
  • Unused (except Australia) 1972 version
  • Peter Howell 1980 version
  • Dominic Glynn 1986 version
  • Keff McCulloch 1987 version
  • John Debney 1996 version (I really don't know - does Debney made "concert" version of theme, or he just used it during credits)
  • Murray Gold series 1-3 version
  • Murray Gold series 4 version
  • Murray Gold series 5-6 version
  • Murray Gold series 7 version

    Once again - this will be ideal structure for me - every theme arrangement from both classics and contemporary eras... And if they could include other versions (David Arnold's, for example) - this will be more cool!

    Any other thoughts? Maybe I missed something?

  •  
     Posted:   Nov 15, 2013 - 6:34 AM   
     By:   Other Tallguy   (Member)

    Ahhhh, the only way to get the 7th season theme will be on an 11 disk box set. That would be NICE. smile

     
     Posted:   Nov 15, 2013 - 7:21 AM   
     By:   SpeakerToAnimals   (Member)

    Will it include the Cushing films though?

    (Not that I don't have them already)

     
     
     Posted:   Nov 15, 2013 - 7:29 AM   
     By:   paulhickling   (Member)

    The promotional cd of the Debney soundtrack doesn't have a 'full' version, only opening and closing titles. Of course, that doesn't mean one doesn't exist but it looks unlikey. For one thing it starts with the middle eight, so it would be interesting to hear what a full version is arranged!

    I suppose what we're calling concert/full versions could be reasonably accurately termed 'single' versions, since up to the Dominic Glynn one, they were all released as vinyl 7" singles, not counting the 1967 onwards variant of the original. There wasn't a Doctor Who release of the full version of Keff McCulloch's. Only on a BBC TV Themes compilation LP if I remember rightly.

    And only Murray Gold's first cd release carries a full version as more or less the end titles for the first festive special The Christmas Invasion where he first used the middle eight. I'd like full versions of the Series 4 'rock' one and the Series 5 one.

    I also seem to remember current 'keeper' of the complete BBC Radiophonic Workshop output, 80s incidental music composer Mark Ayers once saying that only two soundtracks from Dudley Simpson exist, so goodness knows which ones they are, from the Jon Pertwee or Tom Baker era. Some of the Pertwee ones were done with electronics with Simpson using the RW facilities, while the rest are double tracked recordings by small ensembles.

    Of course Cary Blyton's three scores (2 x Pertwee, 1 x Tom) exist as do Geoffrey Burgon's Baker stories.

     
     Posted:   Nov 15, 2013 - 7:34 AM   
     By:   mstrox   (Member)

    DOCTOR WHO – THE 50TH ANNIVERSARY COLLECTION 4CD SET

    RELEASED 9TH OF DECEMBER

    Music by:
    RON GRAINER / DELIA DERBYSHIRE / TRISTRAM CARY / DUDLEY SIMPSON / DON HARPER / CAREY BLYTON / MALCOLM CLARKE / GEOFFREY BURGON / PETER HOWELL / PADDY KINGSLAND / ROGER LIMB / JONATHAN GIBBS / ELIZABETH PARKER / DOMINIC GLYNN / KEFF MCCULLOCH / MARK AYRES / JOHN DEBNEY / MURRAY GOLD

    Special Sound by:
    BRIAN HODGSON & DICK MILLS
    BBC RADIOPHONIC WORKSHOP

    The most comprehensive collection of soundtracks from the classic cult TV show DOCTOR WHO ever assembled, this 4 CD set is a musical journey through time and a fascinating insight into the history and development of television music from experimental beginnings to today's hugely popular orchestrated scores by Murray Gold.



    TRACKLIST:

    – DISC ONE 1963 - 1974 –

    THE FIRST DOCTOR
    WILLIAM HARTNELL

    An Unearthly Child (1963)
    The Daleks (1963)
    The Edge Of Destruction (1964)
    The Keys Of Marinus (1964)
    The Chase (1965)
    Galaxy 4 (1965)
    The Daleks’ Master Plan (1965)
    The Gunfighters (1966)
    The Tenth Planet (1966)


    THE SECOND DOCTOR
    PATRICK TROUGHTON

    The Macra Terror (1967)
    The Tomb Of The Cybermen (1967)
    The Web Of Fear (1968)
    Fury From The Deep (1968)
    The Wheel In Space (1968)
    The Dominators (1968)
    The Mind Robber (1968)
    The Invasion (1968)
    The Krotons (1968)
    The Seeds Of Death (1969)
    The War Games (1969)


    THE THIRD DOCTOR
    JON PERTWEE

    The Mind Of Evil (1971)
    The Claws Of Axos (1971)
    The Sea Devils (1972)
    The Mutants (1972)
    Frontier In Space (1973)
    Death To The Daleks (1974)
    Planet Of The Spiders (1974)

    ___________

    – DISC TWO 1974 - 1984 –

    THE FOURTH DOCTOR
    TOM BAKER

    The Ark In Space (1975)
    Revenge Of The Cybermen (1975)
    Terror Of The Zygons (1975)
    The Android Invasion (1975)
    The Brain Of Morbius (1975)
    The Seeds Of Doom (1976)
    The Masque Of Mandragora (1976)
    The Invasion Of Time (1978)
    The Leisure Hive (1980)
    Full Circle (1980)
    The Keeper Of Traken (1981)
    Logopolis (1981)


    THE FIFTH DOCTOR
    PETER DAVISON

    Castrovalva (1982)
    Four To Doomsday (1982)
    Earthshock (1982)
    Mawdryn Undead (1983)
    The Five Doctors (1983)
    Warriors Of The Deep (1984)
    Resurrection Of The Daleks (1984)
    The Caves Of Androzani (1984)

    – DISC THREE 1984 - 1996 –

    THE SIXTH DOCTOR
    COLIN BAKER

    The Twin Dilemma (1984)
    The Mark Of The Rani (1985)
    The Two Doctors (1985)
    Timelash (1985)
    Revelation Of The Daleks (1985)
    The Trial Of A Time Lord: The Mysterious Planet (1986)
    The Trial Of A Time Lord: Terror Of The Vervoids (1986)
    The Trial Of A Time Lord: The Ultimate Foe (1986)


    THE SEVENTH DOCTOR
    SYLVESTER McCOY

    Time And The Rani (1987)
    Delta And The Bannermen (1987)
    Dragonfire (1987)
    Remembrance Of The Daleks (1988)
    The Greatest Show In The Galaxy (1988)
    Battlefield (1989)
    The Curse Of Fenric (1989)
    Survival (1989)


    THE EIGHTH DOCTOR
    PAUL MCGANN

    Doctor Who - The Television Movie (1996)

    ___________

    – DISC FOUR 2005 - 2013 –

    THE NINTH DOCTOR
    CHRISTOPHER ECCLESTON

    The End Of The World (2005)


    THE TENTH DOCTOR
    DAVID TENNANT

    Doomsday (2006)
    The Runaway Bride (2006)
    Smith And Jones (2007)
    Gridlock (2007)
    The Sound Of Drums / The Last Of The Time Lords (2007)
    The Stolen Earth / Journey’s End (2008)
    The End Of Time (2009)


    THE ELEVENTH DOCTOR
    MATT SMITH

    The Eleventh Hour (2010)
    The Beast Below (2010)
    A Good Man Goes To War (2011)
    The Wedding Of River Song (2011)
    A Christmas Carol (2010)
    Asylum Of The Daleks (2012)
    The Angels Take Manhattan (2012)
    The Bells Of Saint John (2013)
    The Rings Of Akhaten (2013)




     
     Posted:   Nov 15, 2013 - 7:36 AM   
     By:   mstrox   (Member)

    The above was from an e-mail from Silva. They've also updated their site with this, which seems to have a little more track information although the formatting is too atrocious for me to work my way through.

    http://www.doctorwhomusic.com/doctor-who-50th-anniversary-tracklisting/

     
     Posted:   Nov 15, 2013 - 11:18 AM   
     By:   welwynfilmstudios   (Member)

    From Silva's Doctor Who mailing list...





    Silva Screen is pleased to announce that they will be releasing not one, but two retrospective box sets of music to the iconic TV show. A four CD set encompassing music from all eleven Doctors' shows, including many pieces that have never before been released, is an incredible journey through the 5 decades of Doctor Who, with tracks from composers such as Ron Grainer, Delia Derbyshire, Dudley Simpson, Paddy Kingsland and Mark Ayres right through to Murray Gold. The tracklisting and release date will be announced shortly.
    In addition, this year marks such a momentous anniversary for the series, Silva Screen will be releasing an 11 CD set, one for each Doctor, all presented in a specially created Tardis. This highly collectable box set is completely unique and strictly limited. For more details including when and where to pre-order the Tardis Box Set make sure you are signed up to the doctorwhomusic.com newsletter.


    Any word about the 11 disc set?

     
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