Film Score Monthly
FSM HOME MESSAGE BOARD FSM CDs FSM ONLINE RESOURCES FUN STUFF ABOUT US  SEARCH FSM   
Search Terms: 
Search Within:   search tips 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
This is a comments thread about FSM CD: Star Trek: The Next Generation: The Ron Jones Project
 
 Posted:   Mar 2, 2011 - 10:40 PM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)

All this talk of low-key music dovetails directly with the discussion of the score to 'The Social Network'- low-key and ambienty, as much sound design as music.

David Fincher has asked for this style from several composers including David Shire, and Steven Soderbergh also asks this of Cliff Martinez (fewer notes, fewer!). Apparently Christopher Nolan also expects this. And these guys are some of the most influential directors working today. Howard Shore did this for a long time for David Cronenberg.
Maybe Berman was just ahead of the curve (Never mind Bernard Herrmann's contribution years before Berman ran ST.).
While the work that these directors and producers have asked of their composers generally works in the context of the pictures they produce, it does beg the question of whether it advances the art of making music for film/TV.


But you have to ask yourself, what exactly does advance the art of making music for film/TV? Is it whether the music works in the program or works on album as a separate listening experience? At the end of the day, its only goal is to work within the boundaries of the films and TV shows they underscore and if that proves to be effective, then it is job well done. Having the result also be an album of music you can listen to apart from said film/TV show is not necessary to this, whether we like it or not, and thus may not itself really advance the art form.

As far as ambient scores like "Social Network" are concerned, there are people out there who really enjoy them. Should they be discounted and dismissed just because fans of old school orchestral film scores are upset at changing musical tastes? And of course, I say this as one of those old school fans, but I can certainly acknowledge the fact that nothing ever stays the same and music for film & TV has changed and probably won't ever shift back towards what we grew up with.

Anyway... I still love my Ron Jones TNG box set. And lay off Rick Berman, the man did wind up producing some winning seasons of both TNG and DS9. Fans always think they can do better and yet when they try, i.e. fan fiction and fan films, the result is ALWAYS terrible, ham-fisted, obvious and derivative. Being a fan of a show doesn't mean one has any talent at all to make creative decisions for said show. TV producers being slave to their fanbases only will never produce a good product because every decision made to please one guy will upset another.

 
 Posted:   Mar 2, 2011 - 11:40 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)


But you have to ask yourself, what exactly does advance the art of making music for film/TV? Is it whether the music works in the program or works on album as a separate listening experience?


Like asking if a statue not only needs to be a work of art standing outside a building, but also needs to work as a framed photo indoors.

 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2011 - 5:04 AM   
 By:   chriss   (Member)

As I believe I said at the time to somebody, he was doing the kind of scoring that was calling attention to itself. That doesn’t mean, as some people have interpreted it, that I wanted dull, boring music. What it means is that the music is there to enhance the scene that is going. The scene is not there to enhance the music. And Ron’s stuff was getting big and somewhat flamboyant.

Jones' music was subtle and low key when it had to be and he wrote big cues when he felt that approach would work as the best way to score a scene. I think the marvelous Jones box from FSM shows that Jones mostly did a sort of delicate scoring method for the series. An outstanding example is "The Offspring" with the beautiful cosmic birth theme used for Data raising his daughter Lal. It's such heartfelt scoring! And I was surprised by that closing cue for the episode. Perhaps one of the biggest, most dramatic and powerful cues ever written for episodic TV. But I think Jones was right. I recently watched the episode again and this symphonic music of Wagnarian proportions worked really well for the closing scene after Lal's death!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2011 - 10:24 AM   
 By:   Zack371   (Member)

Hey Lukas,

That's very interesting about the digital downloads. I think it's great that you guys are looking at expanding into digital downloads, etc for distribution. I am a huge fan of the physical product (I own the TNG set) but it's inevitable that distribution will move more and more digital. While I don't want it to REPLACE physical products, I think our beloved labels will be missing out on potential revenue by ignoring digital distribution where possible.

Having said that, score fans/lovers/collectors are often quite particular about audio quality. Have you considered finding a distribution model that would allow for LOSSLESS downloads as opposed to lossy mp3 (Amazon) or lossy m4a (iTunes). FLAC/Wav/Apple Lossless downloads would be the only way I could embrace digital downloads.

Just curious if you guys have considered it.

Thanks!

 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2011 - 3:42 PM   
 By:   Lukas Kendall   (Member)

Hey Lukas,

That's very interesting about the digital downloads. I think it's great that you guys are looking at expanding into digital downloads, etc for distribution. I am a huge fan of the physical product (I own the TNG set) but it's inevitable that distribution will move more and more digital. While I don't want it to REPLACE physical products, I think our beloved labels will be missing out on potential revenue by ignoring digital distribution where possible.

Having said that, score fans/lovers/collectors are often quite particular about audio quality. Have you considered finding a distribution model that would allow for LOSSLESS downloads as opposed to lossy mp3 (Amazon) or lossy m4a (iTunes). FLAC/Wav/Apple Lossless downloads would be the only way I could embrace digital downloads.

Just curious if you guys have considered it.

Thanks!


It's beyond my power right now to create a lossless digital delivery system, sorry!

We have a lossless physical product or lossy downloads, those are the choices. And they were hard enough to execute!

Thanks

Lukas

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2011 - 6:23 PM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

Berman said so himself -- he simply liked McCarthy and Chattaway's approach more. He may also like Nikes, where I like New Balance. He may prefer thick crust pizza to thin. Maybe he chooses golf over tennis....

He may also prefer horse shit on rye as opposed to ham and cheese on white, piss and vinegar as opposed to red or white wine, and Rosie O'Donnell as opposed to Megan Fox.

 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2011 - 7:37 PM   
 By:   Amer Zahid   (Member)

A Matter of Perspective: Berman vs Jones. Id prefer that fans and audience be the final judge "

Berman: "Fuck the Audience!"


Oh come on. We may not agree with Berman's creative decision, but it was not only his right but his duty to make the best show he could make. You are inventing this "fuck the audience!" attitude -- it was not Berman's. On fan boards such as this, fans typically make the kneejerk reaction that a choice they would not have made was the result not of a difference of creative opinion, but a result of the producer's contempt for the audience. This is nonsense.

Berman said so himself -- he simply liked McCarthy and Chattaway's approach more. He may also like Nikes, where I like New Balance. He may prefer thick crust pizza to thin. Maybe he chooses golf over tennis. Whatever. These are his choices, and they don't have to be mine. As the showrunner, his job was to make those choices and make a popular show. For the most part, he was very successful at it.

Would you have been more successful? Maybe. But we'll never know, will we?


I think I was quoting Ron Jones quoting Berman there.

 
 Posted:   Mar 4, 2011 - 2:07 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

Great initiative.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 7, 2011 - 4:05 PM   
 By:   Zack371   (Member)



It's beyond my power right now to create a lossless digital delivery system, sorry!

We have a lossless physical product or lossy downloads, those are the choices. And they were hard enough to execute!

Thanks

Lukas


No apology needed AT ALL. My only concern would be if something were offered download-only. If something is download-only, then I'd only want lossless.

As long as the physical product is available, I'll always go that route anyway. smile

I hope you do well with the digital distribution experiment!

Again, THANK YOU for this excellent set. It sits alongside my Blue Box among the crown jewels of my music library!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 7, 2011 - 4:11 PM   
 By:   ScottDS   (Member)

I hope I'm not jumping the gun here but I decided to type in "Ron Jones" on iTunes to see what came up. This did:



It looks like the description isn't 100% there yet. If I squint, I can see "FSM Digital" on the artwork. And nice artwork! Are episode-specific covers available to download somewhere? smile

Good luck on this interesting experiment!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 7, 2011 - 4:22 PM   
 By:   robtoliver   (Member)

Are episode-specific covers available to download somewhere? smile

I worked up some covers for the Ron Jones set a while back. They're not "official," but Lukas did approve of me making them available online.

http://cid-9e3d126a243cc676.office.live.com/browse.aspx/Public/The%20Ron%20Jones%20Project%20Covers

(Apologies for the long URL).

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 7, 2011 - 4:32 PM   
 By:   ScottDS   (Member)

Are episode-specific covers available to download somewhere? smile

I worked up some covers for the Ron Jones set a while back. They're not "official," but Lukas did approve of me making them available online.

http://cid-9e3d126a243cc676.office.live.com/browse.aspx/Public/The%20Ron%20Jones%20Project%20Covers

(Apologies for the long URL).


I guess those slipped my mind. I had forgotten about those. Cool!

 
 
 Posted:   May 5, 2011 - 10:04 AM   
 By:   Jon Lewis   (Member)

So this is now available disc-by-disc on eMusic too, where I am a long-time member. I have enough credits left over for this month to get two discs. What are the two most essential discs in the set in you guys' opinions?

Feedback appreciated!

 
 Posted:   May 5, 2011 - 11:37 AM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)

My reply in brief: Discs 2 and 9

My reply at length: Suggestions such as these are of course subjective and much of your decision on which discs depends on your own familiarity with the series and Jones' music. Each disc features great scores, but some standout above others, whether due to the variety of content, memorable melodies, interesting sonorities or kinetic action material. Two discs to select out of 14 is really tough and hopefully you will be able to swing back around later and grab a few more!

I think you need one disc from the first season simply to hear how Jones started out, how bold and expressive the music was and how colorful the synth component was, similar to the strong synth element in Jerry Goldsmith's music from '83-'87. Disc 2 has two of my favorites, "Datalore" and "11001001", both with great melodies, action, and wonderful use of both Courage and Goldsmith Trek themes. Disc 9 will help provide an idea of what changed in Jones' music but also what remained. It features excellent variety of content, from the Romulan theme in "The Defector", the action highlights of "The High Ground" and the heartbreaking emotions of "The Offspring".

 
 Posted:   May 5, 2011 - 11:50 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

So this is now available disc-by-disc on eMusic too, where I am a long-time member. I have enough credits left over for this month to get two discs. What are the two most essential discs in the set in you guys' opinions?

Feedback appreciated!


First off you can check out the samples on FSM's online pages for the boxset.

I'd also recommend disc 2 (for datalore and it has some excellent action pieces). I'd pick disc 12 as your second choice, a bit more serious and darker but it does have the best of both worlds bonus cues which you can use to supplement the existing release. Just a suggestion.

 
 Posted:   May 5, 2011 - 11:50 AM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)

As a possible alternate, Disc 11 is an awesome disc as well. "Data's Day" not only has one of my favorite one-time only melodies from the series, but also Jones' Romulan theme. "Reunion" is a moody, Klingon-centric score, while "Final Mission" runs the gamut from space action material, expansive music for the desert trek and the optimistic theme for Wesley entering Starfleet Academy. In addition, "Devil's Due" has some colorful, impressionistic writing and an indelible, mischievous main theme.

 
 
 Posted:   May 5, 2011 - 11:59 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

I've been listening to this set again this week. It really is superb!!!

 
 
 Posted:   May 5, 2011 - 12:59 PM   
 By:   Jon Lewis   (Member)

Thanks a lot for the advice. Sounds like Disc 2 is a consensus fave. For the second selection I'll focus on eMusic's track samples for discs 9. 11, and 12 and go with my instincts.

Needless to say, if I dig the hell out of the two discs I get now, I'll get more of them in following months. (The membership plan I'm on allows me to get 3 to 4 full albums a month, which I generally divide between classical and film scores.)

 
 Posted:   May 5, 2011 - 5:39 PM   
 By:   Wedge   (Member)

Another vote for Disc 9, here. "The Offspring" is my favorite score in the set.

 
 
 Posted:   May 5, 2011 - 6:11 PM   
 By:   Jon Lewis   (Member)

I pulled the trigger on discs 2 and 9. Will report my findings soon!

 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
© 2014 Film Score Monthly. All Rights Reserved.