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 Posted:   May 16, 2013 - 3:39 AM   
 By:   Mike West   (Member)

I agree that there are some things you have to look over and ignore or accept as not being perfect to enjoy the movie.

 
 Posted:   May 16, 2013 - 7:37 AM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

Varese has pushed the CD release UP a week, from 5/28 to 5/21!

http://www.varesesarabande.com/servlet/the-1103/Star-Trek-Into-Darkness/Detail

 
 Posted:   May 16, 2013 - 8:55 AM   
 By:   Jeff Bond   (Member)

This movie will please some people and infuriate others--but it's a little less predictable as far as who will react what way this time. I know of a number of old school fans (the kind you would think would reject the new film out of hand) who disliked the first film and enjoyed this one (David Gerrold, who hated the first film, told me he liked this one and felt more like he was in Gene Roddenberry's universe). I also know of people who liked the first one and found this one disappointing.
It definitely falls prey to some of today's action movie conventions and (occasional) incoherence. And some will find the treatment of some prior Trek history sacrilege. I felt about the same way as the last one--the flaws are so obvious that in a weird way they're easy to dismiss (although there were some key scenes that really fell flat for me)--once you've seen Trek 2009 it's obvious how Abrams and his writers roll, so the surprise this time is that there ARE some attempts at getting the Trek philosophy onscreen. I just find the characters engaging and the differences between them and their original incarnations interesting in a Trek funhouse mirror kind of way.
I do think this movie in a way frees up further Trek movies in the series to be more original for just one reason--there will be no further COMMERCIAL reason to ape the previous Trek movies, because none of the plotlines or villains from any of the other Trek films resonated enough with the public for it to make any commercial sense to revive them. I don't see this crew saving the whales or confronting the Borg. And in that sense I understand why they did what they did here--they were trying to come up with something that would have a buzz factor with both fans and the general public.

 
 Posted:   May 16, 2013 - 9:14 AM   
 By:   foxmorty   (Member)

i don't know, i wouldn't put it past them to have a Borg assimilates the whales plotline. in fact, that sounds kinda good.

 
 
 Posted:   May 16, 2013 - 10:11 AM   
 By:   Chris Avis   (Member)

[startquote I don't see this crew saving the whales or confronting the Borg.

I wouldn't be too sure about that... there's an interview with Damon Lindelof here that hints at the possibility of bringing in classing TNG villains into the fray. Personally, I can't wait to see a british version of Q sneering at kirk before getting into a fistfight with Spock.

http://www.heyuguys.co.uk/damon-lindelof-says-he-already-knows-the-bad-guys-and-key-plot-points-of-star-trek-iii/


Chris.

 
 
 Posted:   May 16, 2013 - 10:39 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

What I want to know is this:

If Khan's history is the same in the Abrams universe as it was in the "proper" universe, and we assume it is, because the Eugenics War happened before Nero's interference, then we must also assume that "original" Khan also had magic healing blood.

If that's the case, why didn't he use said blood to bring his wife back to life on Ceti Alpha V? Or his followers? Or the many people he lost during Reliant's attack on the Enterprise? Wasn't his wife's death one of the driving forces behind his hatred of Kirk? Hmmmm?

Or did I miss something?

I love this... Khan's magic blood has its own Twitter account! LOL
https://twitter.com/KhanMagicBlood


Y'see if Abrams had rebooted the franchise from scratch, he'd have had more flexibility. But by trying to be clever, and spinning off an alternate universe from a set point in time, he's set himself up for an epic fail.

 
 
 Posted:   May 16, 2013 - 11:05 AM   
 By:   Chris Avis   (Member)



Y'see if Abrams had rebooted the franchise from scratch, he'd have had more flexibility. But by trying to be clever, and spinning off an alternate universe from a set point in time, he's set himself up for an epic fail.


Spymaster, you're showing a) far more intelligence and b) far more respect for Trek history than the writers of this disaster. Don't try to rationally understand the movie... you'll just get more pissed off!

Oh and regarding:
Khan's Magic Blood the reason it makes no sense is that it doesn't obey the rules of logic, it obeys the rules of Damon Lindeloff's magic writer's pen: it works when the writers can't figure out how to fix their crappy writing. I'd bet good money it was his idea... it has exactly the same properties as the nonsensical black goo from Prometheus.

Chris.

 
 
 Posted:   May 16, 2013 - 10:41 PM   
 By:   DanH   (Member)

I sure hope he had the same blood type. Reminds me of the Fred Saberhagen Dracula books where the main reason Dracula kept draining Lucy is because of that idiot Van Helsing killing her with wrong blood type.

 
 
 Posted:   May 16, 2013 - 10:59 PM   
 By:   Willgoldnewtonbarrygrusin   (Member)

Loved the film completely.

And I can say that as a long time Trek fan, starting with TOS (not with TNG, yes, I´m that old), I think the franchise could not be in better hands. It is still absolutely typical STAR TREK, the way Gene Roddenberry had envisioned it.

Abrams really managed to make a movie that is absolutely honoring the original STAR TREK while giving it a fresh spin. For me, it succeeded in every aspect.

Concerning the score - I must say in the cinema in which I saw the film the score was NOT drowned out by sound effects. I love this score and consider it one of the best Star Trek scores yet (even if it cannot approach Goldsmith, of course).

Oh, and for those guys who love to hate this movie and Abrams and Lindelof (and obviously have the time to discuss ad nauseam those plot points which they did not like/understand) - do what William Shatner proposed.

 
 
 Posted:   May 16, 2013 - 11:29 PM   
 By:   John Mullin   (Member)

Oh, and for those guys who love to hate this movie and Abrams and Lindelof (and obviously have the time to discuss ad nauseam those plot points which they did not like/understand) - do what William Shatner proposed.

Wait... I haven't seen the movie yet, but in the event that I don't like/understand it, are you saying that I'm supposed to strategically bid for hotel rooms using Priceline.com?

 
 
 Posted:   May 16, 2013 - 11:44 PM   
 By:   Willgoldnewtonbarrygrusin   (Member)

Haha! Good punch!

And, of course, let me backtrack on this. Everyone can have his/her opinion.

I just find it strange when people discuss "plot holes" which are not there if you follow the story closely. (Even the before-mentioned "Alice Eve undresses for no reason" is ridiculous because she actually changes her clothes for a particular mission which follows in the next sequence).

Also, if someone hates this new "Star Trek"-film for plot hole without considering all the plot holes from TOS onwards, that´s just... illogical, right?

 
 
 Posted:   May 17, 2013 - 12:03 AM   
 By:   Chris Avis   (Member)

Haha! Good punch!

And, of course, let me backtrack on this. Everyone can have his/her opinion.

I just find it strange when people discuss "plot holes" which are not there if you follow the story closely. (Even the before-mentioned "Alice Eve undresses for no reason" is ridiculous because she actually changes her clothes for a particular mission which follows in the next sequence).

Also, if someone hates this new "Star Trek"-film for plot hole without considering all the plot holes from TOS onwards, that´s just... illogical, right?


I've said my piece about the film, but I'm just going to predict that this film is going to be this year's Skyfall in terms of being a big blockbuster with a highly divisive opinion amongst the audience. There seems to be some division of opinion about the score too, but it's not polarizing to the extent that Newman's Bond score was.

Chris.

 
 
 Posted:   May 17, 2013 - 1:18 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

Loved the film completely.

And I can say that as a long time Trek fan, starting with TOS (not with TNG, yes, I´m that old), I think the franchise could not be in better hands. It is still absolutely typical STAR TREK, the way Gene Roddenberry had envisioned it.

Abrams really managed to make a movie that is absolutely honoring the original STAR TREK while giving it a fresh spin. For me, it succeeded in every aspect.

Concerning the score - I must say in the cinema in which I saw the film the score was NOT drowned out by sound effects. I love this score and consider it one of the best Star Trek scores yet (even if it cannot approach Goldsmith, of course)


And you were doing so well up to that point! smile

 
 
 Posted:   May 17, 2013 - 1:48 AM   
 By:   Willgoldnewtonbarrygrusin   (Member)

Loved the film completely.

And I can say that as a long time Trek fan, starting with TOS (not with TNG, yes, I´m that old), I think the franchise could not be in better hands. It is still absolutely typical STAR TREK, the way Gene Roddenberry had envisioned it.

Abrams really managed to make a movie that is absolutely honoring the original STAR TREK while giving it a fresh spin. For me, it succeeded in every aspect.

Concerning the score - I must say in the cinema in which I saw the film the score was NOT drowned out by sound effects. I love this score and consider it one of the best Star Trek scores yet (even if it cannot approach Goldsmith, of course)


And you were doing so well up to that point! smile


True. Sorry.

But really, Giacchino´s score has grown on me considerably - and now I do find it remarkable!

Of course, I should add Horner´s work to Goldsmith´s legendary achievement that both Giacchino-scores cannot approach.

 
 Posted:   May 17, 2013 - 1:50 AM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

I sure hope he had the same blood type. Reminds me of the Fred Saberhagen Dracula books where the main reason Dracula kept draining Lucy is because of that idiot Van Helsing killing her with wrong blood type.


What are you worried about? Bones tested it on a tribble first, didn't he?

 
 
 Posted:   May 17, 2013 - 1:55 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

It is still absolutely typical STAR TREK, the way Gene Roddenberry had envisioned it.

Are you sure? While I would never presume to guess what Gene Roddenberry would have said, I'm pretty sure he'd have strongly opposed the fact that the central plot was triggered by villainly perpetrated by a Starfleet Officer (Admiral Marcus) on behalf of a clandestine Starfleet organisation (Section 31) just as he opposed the idea of Starfleet officers being racist and conspiratorial in Star Trek 6.

That's not to say that those elements are new to this film (the latter was born out of DS9) or necessary in some ways but don't go saying that this movie holds true to Roddenberry's ideals because it doesn't.

And yes I'm aware that he was opposed to every single Trek film since TMP.

 
 
 Posted:   May 17, 2013 - 1:56 AM   
 By:   Mike West   (Member)

It seems to be a new trend in terms of soundmix:

In loud action scenes (the kronos wartet) the music basically drowns in dialogue and noises except when there are no sound effects/dialogue basically in the scene (warp core values) but in emotional aftermath scenes there are no sound effects at all and there is the music alone (meld-merized).
And there is a sequence lifted from the 2009 film which again has no score at all but an interesting sound effects atmosphere.

I like to have the music alone, also like in the latest superman trailer in the beginning, but I'd love to hear much more from the score in cues like the kronos wartet. What's the sense of composing such a piece when you can't hear anything in the first minute except for some iinterchangeable rhythmic ostinati.

 
 
 Posted:   May 17, 2013 - 2:00 AM   
 By:   wackness   (Member)

87% of 181 reviews on Rottentomatoes LOVES this movie. 89% of 78,686 viewers who post on Rottentomatoes LOVE this movie.

Not saying that this is the be all end all of opinions but I am sensing this is a new generation's Star Trek and no matter how angry some get about it, I find it interesting that CRITICS who aren't fanboys on AICN think this is a pretty neat film.

I think we all need to take this into perspective. If you hated it, fine...you hated it but I just saw it and LOVED it. I am a pretty picky plot guy and the issues some seem to have work just fine as popcorn fare.

Like the movies that came before, these are fiction. I could yell about how lame ST V was and how that crapped all over the ST universe when it was released. I can also argue that ST 1-6 and the TNG films had tons of plot issues and did not always adhere to the past when it came to the TV and filmed versions (for example the TNG movies sure did love crashing the Enterprise every time!).

In the end to enjoy a movie like this means to accept that it's like reading fan fiction. It doesn't always stick to the timelines and ethos of past eps and movies, but if it works then it works for many on a stand alone level.

Those griping about Skyfall do not ever ask why each and every Bond has changed some element of the story timelines. I could nitpick that each and every Bond movie be stuck in the 60s if we really want to stay accurate. To do that would be a turn off to a lot of film goers. Kind of hard to watch each and every one in 5 decades change with the times and reboot each time a new Bond comes in to play the iconic role.

I hated the Star Wars prequels (well, the last one didn't make me as angry as the one with Jar Jar did) but watching them all recently I wasn't so up in arms over it. So many plot issues yet these films do have their moments to enjoy. The new Star Wars are a big deal to many YOUNG fans who saw them much as the original and Empire delighted me as a kid while my mom thought they were dreck.

Movies like Star Trek exist for the younger movie going audience to enjoy and grow with. Once they outgrow it and box office dies off, they reboot for a new generation. No problems with that and Abrams DID a good job regardless.



 
 
 Posted:   May 17, 2013 - 2:31 AM   
 By:   Willgoldnewtonbarrygrusin   (Member)

It is still absolutely typical STAR TREK, the way Gene Roddenberry had envisioned it.

Are you sure? While I would never presume to guess what Gene Roddenberry would have said, I'm pretty sure he'd have strongly opposed the fact that the central plot was triggered by villainly perpetrated by a Starfleet Officer (Admiral Marcus) on behalf of a clandestine Starfleet organisation (Section 31) just as he opposed the idea of Starfleet officers being racist and conspiratorial in Star Trek 6.

That's not to say that those elements are new to this film (the latter was born out of DS9) or necessary in some ways but don't go saying that this movie holds true to Roddenberry's ideals because it doesn't.

And yes I'm aware that he was opposed to every single Trek film since TMP.


As far as I know about Roddenberry´s objections from KHAN onwards, it mainly had to do with him being frozen out of the development process. Which definitely would have been brutal for any creator of something that successful.

But having one villain in Starfleet, probably manipulating the organisation, for reasons that appear to him very sensible (the unavoidable war with the Klingons must be led by people like him under moral conditions that he determines), does not discredit all of Starfleet - so I think that Roddenberry would have agreed here, especially since Kirk does not kill Khan as ordered and tries to find a solution against Marcus´ attempt at a cover-up .

So I do think that everything in STID is true to Roddenberry´s central ideas.

 
 
 Posted:   May 17, 2013 - 4:39 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

So I do think that everything in STID is true to Roddenberry´s central ideas.

I still disagree (it would have taken more than one individual to build the USS Vengeance, the very name of which is anti-Roddenberry) but the beauty of the Abrams-universe is that it all takes place in an alternate universe so... NONE OF IT MATTERS!

It has no more importance, in the great scheme of things, than, say, Mirror Mirror or Yesterday's Enterprise... And like those parallel stories before it, it was fun to watch for a bit.

 
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