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 Posted:   Jan 20, 2014 - 12:07 PM   
 By:   Kim Tong   (Member)

Why has Robin not posted anything here since the errors have been found? This was a title that was on my "to get" list, but I will have to hold off until Robin explains what happened to see if I buy it.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2014 - 12:37 PM   
 By:   Ford A. Thaxton   (Member)

Why has Robin not posted anything here since the errors have been found? This was a title that was on my "to get" list, but I will have to hold off until Robin explains what happened to see if I buy it.

Because, he's been sick as a dog for the last week and as of last saturday night had lost his voice.

With luck he will be feeling better shortly.

But where do you get off DEMANDING HIM TO DO ANYTHING.

So far I've heard a few FANBOYS bitching about what appear to be a few minor issues with the master that the original label provided to him.

This title was PRESSED UP BY WEA, so before you start pointing fingers at ROBIN, perhaps it's time to WAIT for him to get HEALTHY and look into it.

So far all I'm hearing are a few fairly minor issues that unless you are playing it at an ungodly loud level on HEADSETS aren't very noticeable.

Now, I just the CD myself, so I'll take some time this evening and see what I can hear.

Do perhaps it's time to chill out and be a tad less anal.


Ford A. Thaxton

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2014 - 1:01 PM   
 By:   gmanca   (Member)

Now I don't really post much and when I do it's always to praise the great work all of these labels do to provide a product to a niche product to a small market, I can only assume it is very difficult and a labor of love for those involved.

That said, the errors do exist and no Mr Thaxton, you do not need to hear the noise on Burning Bar at ungodly levels, you can hear the pops just fine.

I'm not sure what I think about this release as I have the Wounded Bird edition but it will be good to hear what the explanation is and decide from there.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2014 - 1:25 PM   
 By:   riotengine   (Member)

This title was PRESSED UP BY WEA, so before you start pointing fingers at ROBIN, perhaps it's time to WAIT for him to get HEALTHY and look into it.

Do perhaps it's time to chill out and be a tad less anal.

Ford A. Thaxton


After all, we don't want to turn into an unruly mob, do we? wink



Greg Espinoza

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2014 - 1:35 PM   
 By:   MikeP   (Member)

deleted. At the point of not giving much of a f*ck big grin

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2014 - 1:40 PM   
 By:   Ford A. Thaxton   (Member)

This title was PRESSED UP BY WEA, so before you start pointing fingers at ROBIN, perhaps it's time to WAIT for him to get HEALTHY and look into it.

Do perhaps it's time to chill out and be a tad less anal.

Ford A. Thaxton


After all, we don't want to turn into an unruly mob, do we? wink



Greg Espinoza


Nothing a FLAMER THROWER wouldn't be able to address.

:-)

Ford A. Thaxton

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2014 - 1:41 PM   
 By:   Ford A. Thaxton   (Member)

deleted. At the point of not giving much of a f*ck big grin

Good idea.

Ford A. Thaxton

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2014 - 8:23 PM   
 By:   TheXFactor   (Member)

from Dan J. Schulte:

Uh, per Perseverance in their initial announcement: "Terrific masters provided by Warner Music."

So..Warner provided vinyl masters for film music? Who knew?




Dan, I hear that UK based synthesist Mark Shreeve knew. Of course, if you listen to his music you might think that "Satan is coming through the speakers" because it's "so scary". Dude.

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 5:31 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

Sorry to hear that Robin's sick for the time being, I hope he gets well. I will await the CD before I comment further, it's obvious some people here have a bone to pick and that's not really resolving anything.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 10:06 PM   
 By:   Ford A. Thaxton   (Member)

OK, I got a copy and sat down and looked at these issues....

This is the master that was provided to them by the original label.

These are tape drop-outs on whatever master was provided to PERSEVERANCE RECORDS by WB.

so if ANYONE wants to bitch about these two defects, it's WARNER BROS MUSIC GROUP that you really should address this to since they gave Perseverance the master that was approved to use.

Now the other point is that unless you are listening to this at an ungodly loud level on Headsets 99% of the planet won't even notice it.

I've heard vastly worst defects on many other releases, it's a shame that they they were given to work with, but it's also NOT THE END OF THE WORLD EITHER.

I would suggest that Perseverance take the issue up with WB and ask them to fix the problem and press replacement CDS without this defect.

It's up to WB to decide if they do so.

That's my view on the matter.


Ford A. Thaxton

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 10:15 PM   
 By:   Ford A. Thaxton   (Member)

More good news — it sounds like it was 'remastered' from a vinyl copy.

Then perhaps it's time to get you hearing tested?

They are clearly using a TAPE SOURCE....

Only someone who wants to cause trouble would be spreading this sort of crap.

I don't know what your agenda is, but take it elsewhere.


Ford A. Thaxton

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 10:58 PM   
 By:   gmanca   (Member)

Thank you for the update Mr Thaxton, it is unfortunate that WB signed off on it.

Btw will you ever produce a second volume of the 1980s Twilight Zone? I appreciate that you got out the first one and while it does contain the majority of music I was looking for from the show, there are some other pieces worthy of release, like the version of Night Song featured on the show.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 11:00 PM   
 By:   Ford A. Thaxton   (Member)

Thank you for the update Mr Thaxton, it is unfortunate that WB signed off on it.

Btw will you ever produce a second volume of the 1980s Twilight Zone? I appreciate that you got out the first one and while it does contain the majority of music I was looking for from the show, there are some other pieces worthy of release, like the version of Night Song featured on the show.


Another label is producing that project and I wish them the best.

Ford A. Thaxton

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 8:24 PM   
 By:   goozer   (Member)

More good news — it sounds like it was 'remastered' from a vinyl copy.

Then perhaps it's time to get you hearing tested?

They are clearly using a TAPE SOURCE....

Only someone who wants to cause trouble would be spreading this sort of crap.

I don't know what your agenda is, but take it elsewhere.


Ford A. Thaxton


I don't have an 'agenda', nor am I in the habit of listening to anything at 'ungodly' levels. I heard them quite clearly through my speakers first, then confirmed through headphones at office listening levels (i.e. below normal.) This has also been confirmed by others. Whether or not they found them to be as jarring and intrusive as I did is matter of subjective opinion — the fact that they are there is not. My use of the 'needle drop' hyperbole was shorthand for one possible explanation of the pops and clicks heard. Since we all know of instances where this has occurred, it is not unreasonable to note the similarities. I will, however, withdraw my insinuation as regards the provenance of this track.

As for the masters themselves, this leads to some interesting lines of inquiry. We have two very different releases of this score dating back to its original release. Which of the two (Elektra or Virgin) is sourced from the Original Album Master (as distinct from the Film Master that was delivered to Michael Mann and then resequenced by him)? Since the Elektra release did not have "Beach Scene" on it, and the Virgin release did not have "Confrontation", we know there were two distinct Album Masters. When Virgin released their SBM Definitive Edition in 1995, the Original Virgin Master was used. When Wounded Bird released their version back in 2004, WEA provided them with the Virgin Master first, instead of the Elektra Master, which led to their release snafu.

Now, as none of the previous releases have any of the sound issues present in the Perseverance Records release, some questions arise: Did Wounded Bird simply "splice in" the track "Confrontation" from the Elektra Master to the Virgin Master; If so, was this because the Elektra Master was found to be faulty, or if not, was the Master damaged at this point? If the sound issues were present from the start, why was this not at least addressed with a simple disclaimer, such as the ones provided on some of the Silva Screen releases you yourself were involved with in the past? If not, the same question remains, as while WEA may have been responsible for pressing the disc, there should have been at least someone in the chain to QC the glass master and discover the flaws.

Finally, as stated above, it doesn't matter that you don't hear them, or that others don't find them intrusive. I do hear them and they are very intrusive to me. And as someone who has purchased a defective product that is not as advertised, I am standing on very solid ground when I say that this needs to be addressed by Perseverance immediately. Please spare me the 'White Knight' invective and save your accusations and ad hominem for someone else.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 25, 2014 - 5:32 PM   
 By:   Mr. Popular   (Member)

Finally heard back from Robin:

Once I got my voice back, I asked Chas to check the master for these "errors". He listened to the master we got from WEA and told me that these were analog tape dropouts that were on the original master tapes. He also pointed out that, even while there were previous releases of the same music without these flaws, these dropouts might have occurred after the tapes had been digitized for these older albums, but prior to us getting the most recent tape transfers. So, these are NOT mastering errors or defects that we could have corrected had we paid closer attention.

So, there you have it. While we are very sorry that this is not the most perfect release, there was really nothing we could have done differently. I hope this puts the name calling to rest.

ATB,

Robin Esterhammer


Robin Esterhammer
President & CEO
Perseverance Records

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 29, 2014 - 8:49 AM   
 By:   goozer   (Member)

Finally heard back from Robin:

Once I got my voice back, I asked Chas to check the master for these "errors". He listened to the master we got from WEA and told me that these were analog tape dropouts that were on the original master tapes. He also pointed out that, even while there were previous releases of the same music without these flaws, these dropouts might have occurred after the tapes had been digitized for these older albums, but prior to us getting the most recent tape transfers. So, these are NOT mastering errors or defects that we could have corrected had we paid closer attention.

So, there you have it. While we are very sorry that this is not the most perfect release, there was really nothing we could have done differently. I hope this puts the name calling to rest.

ATB,

Robin Esterhammer


Robin Esterhammer
President & CEO
Perseverance Records


Well, it's nice to read that now that Mr. Esterhammer's voice has recovered, he is finally taking the time to write some of you back. And as the only one who was actually the target of "name-calling", I, too, hope it has been put to rest. Meanwhile, I am still awaiting a response to my follow-up email as regards a refund for this defective product.

I also note that his explanation of the errors, while plausible, is still an incredible admission that no one bothered to QC the master tape before it was sent to press! Since we now know that they can be heard on the tape provided, let me suggest a couple of things that could have been done differently "had we paid closer attention":

1) Pay closer attention. This should have been caught at the beginning.

2) A disclaimer noting the flaws should absolutely have been provided, as this is most assuredly not the "best sounding release" of this album due to that fact.

I can guarantee that I would not have purchased this release had that fact been made known, as no amount of flashy packaging can distract from the focus of the item in question — which is the music itself.

 
 Posted:   Jan 29, 2014 - 9:27 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

Now, when can I expect an email from you to address my return and refund question?

This board is not to be used as a complaint department for labels. No exceptions.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 29, 2014 - 9:50 AM   
 By:   goozer   (Member)

Now, when can I expect an email from you to address my return and refund question?

This board is not to be used as a complaint department for labels. No exceptions.


My apologies, LeHah — I of course am not really wanting him to respond to this here. I will remove that section from my post.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 29, 2014 - 9:50 AM   
 By:   Mr. Popular   (Member)

Finally heard back from Robin:

Once I got my voice back, I asked Chas to check the master for these "errors". He listened to the master we got from WEA and told me that these were analog tape dropouts that were on the original master tapes. He also pointed out that, even while there were previous releases of the same music without these flaws, these dropouts might have occurred after the tapes had been digitized for these older albums, but prior to us getting the most recent tape transfers. So, these are NOT mastering errors or defects that we could have corrected had we paid closer attention.

So, there you have it. While we are very sorry that this is not the most perfect release, there was really nothing we could have done differently. I hope this puts the name calling to rest.

ATB,

Robin Esterhammer


Robin Esterhammer
President & CEO
Perseverance Records


Well, it's nice to read that now that Mr. Esterhammer's voice has recovered, he is finally taking the time to write some of you back. And as the only one who was actually the target of "name-calling", I, too, hope it has been put to rest. Meanwhile, I am still awaiting a response to my follow-up email as regards a refund for this defective product.

I also note that his explanation of the errors, while plausible, is still an incredible admission that no one bothered to QC the master tape before it was sent to press! Since we now know that they can be heard on the tape provided, let me suggest a couple of things that could have been done differently "had we paid closer attention":

1) Pay closer attention. This should have been caught at the beginning.

2) A disclaimer noting the flaws should absolutely have been provided, as this is most assuredly not the "best sounding release" of this album due to that fact.

I can guarantee that I would not have purchased this release had that fact been made known, as no amount of flashy packaging can distract from the focus of the item in question — which is the music itself.

Now, when can I expect an email from you to address my return and refund question?


You seem to misunderstand his point. He was clear that the music was delivered late in the process by WEA. He told me point blank (not in the email as it's more personal back and forth) that in the future any WEA release will be timed so they can hear the music before making any decisions.

He feels bad this happened but unlike some past mistakes from his label I don't believe this is anything he could have fixed or controlled.

In the future, he assures me the plan is to move on and learn from this mistake as he never expected WEA to deliver a messed up master. I have gotten to know the guy very well and can say he seems to learn from mistakes. Robin is a fan like all of us are. Like all small labels he can't walk away from signed deals without it seriously hurting his company. Guess you can say when stuff like this happens, he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

He told me this has sold very well through his distributor. I would assume that most of those units sell through Amazon and I haven't seen that many negatives for the product outside of two people (my take not his).

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 30, 2014 - 9:53 PM   
 By:   TheXFactor   (Member)

goozer: "And as the only one who was actually the target of "name-calling"..."


Hermes, any vitriol directed at you was of your own doing. You took what amounted to a simple technical error and blew it into such a monumental crime against humanity that even the Star Trek fanboys who perpetuate the 'Kirk vs. Picard' debate would wonder what the obsession was all about and tell you- as I have- to GET PAST YOURSELF.

Your post/response to Ford Thaxton from the 24th ("Please spare me the 'White Knight' invective and save your accusations and ad hominem for someone else") is so indicative of an "I'm right and the ENTIRE rest of the world doesn't know what it's talking about" mentality that it's little wonder you've taken to retitling the works of others. Not to mention ripping off said band's musical approach/style for a (ahem) "solo album" that probably didn't sell a fraction of what a just released 30+ year old score that's been issued across multiple formats and on different labels has- sound issues and all. And your response you Robin's explanation- with 'read', 'voice', 'write', et al in boldface? Pathetic. Also, sad.

Given the frequency of leaps in digital technology- especially as far as sound is concerned- more and more flaws of this nature are going to occur simply because of the gaps between the two sources. Is it something that needs to be addressed with future releases? Absolutely. Did it warrant the over-the-top, hyperbolic, ranting, "shared on every forum that I am a member of" response you gave it? Not even remotely. Some might even say it was "inexcusable".

 
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