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This is great news. First La La's complete score of Superman Returns and now this. My complete Trek scores will soon be complete. Would this have been remastered like all the others as I read the sound quality on the original was awful?
Looking at the track listing, could the second disc's track "8. A New Ending*†** (8:30) be the film version of the end credits?
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Posted: |
Dec 9, 2013 - 8:20 AM
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By: |
Spymaster
(Member)
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Looking at the track listing, could the second disc's track "8. A New Ending*†** (8:30) be the film version of the end credits?
I would doubt it.
AFAIK Goldsmith recorded two versions of the End Title. The first was intended for the original ending of the film (as seen on the DVD deleted scenes) and is featured on the "promo" recording. The second was re-shaped around the re-cut ending (hence, I always assumed, the title "A New Ending") and was included on the soundtrack CD.
The first take renders "Blue Skies" on piano and goes straight into the TMP march. The second take has a brief snippet of "Blue Skies", then a defiant stride of chords (Picard walking from B4s quarters), then the TMP march.
Similarly, Shinzon's theme is slightly different across both versions, with phrases pausing on the second (album) take, while overlapping in the first (boot) version.
Having said that, the 8:30 timing is mysterious, so not sure what they've done here. I'd hate to think it's the film edit because that was AWFUL and musically shapeless. The two versions noted above would be far more useful. Perhaps Goldsmith envisaged something else again, that nobody has yet heard.
Then again, perhaps Varese' timing is wrong (see also: "Positronic Signal" labelling).
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The timings for the "End Credits" are correct. Disc 1 begins with the film version intro and continues with an extension created by Goldsmith to accommodate the length of the credits. (In the end it needed to be even longer than that, so they ended up taking care of it editorially and some of this was unheard). The disc 2 version is Goldsmith's original end credits piece but with the alternate opening.
Neither of these is what is on the original album. As with GNP's release of Insurrection, there are some tracks that are unique to the original release of Nemesis, so completists should hold on to them. Apart from the End Credits issue, it's a matter of "album mixes" vs. "film mixes."
Mike
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Do we know which cues are unique to the OST?
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The only tracks that are exactly the same on the Deluxe Edition as on the original release:
My Right Arm
The Knife
Ideals
Lateral Run
A New Friend
The others are now the film mixes instead of the album mixes. Plus the above discussed End Credits.
Mike
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I'll hang onto my copy of the OST simply because its an SACD.
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The only tracks that are exactly the same on the Deluxe Edition as on the original release:
My Right Arm
The Knife
Ideals
Lateral Run
A New Friend
The others are now the film mixes instead of the album mixes. Plus the above discussed End Credits.
Mike
Fantastic, and thank you.
Different mixes of the same cues, and only the End Credits different.
Sounds to me that this release is Definitive for me. 
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I listened to the film version's End Credits last night and it went for 7:45. So Mike, are you saying the version of the end credits on this deluxe release is as it's heard in the film where the closing TMP march is played twice?
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I listened to the film version's End Credits last night and it went for 7:45. So Mike, are you saying the version of the end credits on this deluxe release is as it's heard in the film where the closing TMP march is played twice?
I believe this is what we have:
>>The timings for the "End Credits" are correct. Disc 1 begins with the film version intro and continues with an extension created by Goldsmith to accommodate the length of the credits.
This indicates that it is the film version of the cue.
>> (In the end it needed to be even longer than that, so they ended up taking care of it editorially and some of this was unheard).
This tells me this version of the cue was edited from what was recorded to the appropriate length for the finished film, probably looping sections, or adding material from other cues in the score, and maybe missing something of what was originally recorded.
I suspect the time quoted here does not include the finale leading up to the credits.
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Posted: |
Dec 9, 2013 - 7:36 PM
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By: |
Chris Avis
(Member)
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I have such a love/hate relationship with this score. One the one hand, there's some pretty stellar, gritty action music that's amongst the best of Goldsmith's late 1990s output and some neat references to TMP. But on the other hand, much of the rest of the score is so droning and sluggish. You can hear the potential that's there in, say Shinzon's theme, for the dramatic sections of the score to really take off (and Goldsmith really lets it rip in the expansion of the themes in the credits), but for whatever reason it never quite achieves liftoff elsewhere in the score.
There's probably a good solid, 50 minute album that can be made with all of the material from the score. The original OST definitely didn't show it in its best light and nor will this fully expanded complete release. I don't fault Varese for releasing it this way... had they done it any other way, they'd have never heard the end of the complaints and at least a complete release can be cut down to a manageable playlist.
It's quite interesting to see the about face in opinion of this score. It was endlessly derided when it first came out as I recall. I don't know whether this is due to the general bashing of Goldsmith's later output of the time of the score's release or the fact that modern scores are so much worse than even this second-tier Goldsmith effort. It's a solid 3 star score, nothing more, nothing less and certainly the weakest of his Trek efforts.
(And yes, despite my criticism, I have picked this one up)
Chris.
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The only tracks that are exactly the same on the Deluxe Edition as on the original release:
My Right Arm
The Knife
Ideals
Lateral Run
A New Friend
The others are now the film mixes instead of the album mixes. Plus the above discussed End Credits.
Mike
Mike, Please could you confirm if "Positronic Signal" is titled properly on the actual inlay? Thanks!
Yes, the cue title is "Positronic".
To clarify further, the live mixes were used for the original album and just about everything was remixed for the film. The only cues that were both on the original album AND NOT remixed for the film are the ones listed above.
I don't recall the info on Insurrection offhand but I'm sure it's in the thread on that release.
Mike
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Picked up this great release of course. Normally, I'm not very adamant about having songs with my score, but the Brent Spiner interpretation of Blue Skies plays a pivotal plot role in the film and thus is required material.
Kudos to the producers and to Varese Sarabande.
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