Film Score Monthly
FSM HOME MESSAGE BOARD FSM CDs FSM ONLINE RESOURCES FUN STUFF ABOUT US  SEARCH FSM   
Search Terms: 
Search Within:   search tips 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 3:50 PM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

Well, I think EVERYTHING should be made into suites, even far more radical than this! The closer it gets to the parameters of classical music (or other music written for its own purpose) and the further it gets from the movie, the better!

But that's just me, of course.


But separating the music into tracks doesn't make it further "from the parameters of classical music".
Giving a good classical example, there's no AURAL difference between a recording of Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini separated into 23 tracks as there is if it's only given 1 track.


I know. I was just 'soap boxing' a bit about the concept of suites and film music in general.

I really enjoy the succinct score presentation on the ol' bootleg of FALLING DOWN, but I have a principle of always throwing boots in the trash and replacing them with legit releases once they surface. But I guess I can rearrange the Intrada to the old program when I transfer it to iTunes.


No, Thor, you can't rearrange the Intrada version to do that! You add one cue to that old version of Falling Down (the "Bill Comes Home" cue from the trailer) and you've got a good 30-minute program of the score's highlights.

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 4:02 PM   
 By:   The Mutant   (Member)

I'm just amazed Thor has finally admitted that he can make his own itunes playlists.
Baby steps.

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 5:49 PM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

I'm just amazed that Thor has finally admitted that he can make his own itunes playlists.
Baby steps.


Haha, my blue rage at the Falling Down business made me totally gloss over this revelation!

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 6:38 PM   
 By:   Jeff Bond   (Member)

The last thing I would want is overlapping cues made into separate tracks, like we had on things like the Rhino Ben-Hur, where the very long sea battle cue--which plays magnificently as one piece of music--is divided into something like 14 tracks! Then if you isolate any one of those for listening, you go from silence to an instantaneous blast of music you're coming into the middle of, and then having the track cut off in the middle of a tone at the end. This is the reality of having most people experience this music via iTunes--you simply CAN'T have a pleasant listening experience with tracks assembled that way, it's like listening to a car wreck.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 10:53 PM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)

The last thing I would want is overlapping cues made into separate tracks, like we had on things like the Rhino Ben-Hur, where the very long sea battle cue--which plays magnificently as one piece of music--is divided into something like 14 tracks! Then if you isolate any one of those for listening, you go from silence to an instantaneous blast of music you're coming into the middle of, and then having the track cut off in the middle of a tone at the end. This is the reality of having most people experience this music via iTunes--you simply CAN'T have a pleasant listening experience with tracks assembled that way, it's like listening to a car wreck.

Hasn't iTunes has crossfading for years now? But that's iTunes's fault, not a CD's.
If you can't have a pleasant listening experience with iTunes, don't use iTunes.

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 12:25 AM   
 By:   Julian K   (Member)

Everyone seems to have forgotten CD's ability to have sub-track index points.

They were quite common, especially on classical discs, for the first few years of the format.

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 12:30 AM   
 By:   WillGoldNewtonBarryGrusin   (Member)

A much wanted score has been released by one great, always reliable label.

Before, the score was unavailable.

I am happy now.

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 1:44 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

I hope Doug wasn't in any heavy traffic when he read this thread.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 1:54 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

No, Thor, you can't rearrange the Intrada version to do that! You add one cue to that old version of Falling Down (the "Bill Comes Home" cue from the trailer) and you've got a good 30-minute program of the score's highlights.

Thanks, I'll check that out. Of course, I still mean that I can't pretend to be a record producer out of the raw material alone if there has been no previous album, but when you have a 'recipe' like that of the bootleg presentation, and when I'm transferring the album to iTunes anyway, it becomes possible. smile

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 3:55 AM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

Playing an album in iTunes or on one's iPod/iPhone/iPad is now (and has been for some years) gapless. Placing an additional track mark here or there into a 13-minute suite will not disturb the flow of the cue at all.

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 5:53 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

Playing an album in iTunes or on one's iPod/iPhone/iPad is now (and has been for some years) gapless. Placing an additional track mark here or there into a 13-minute suite will not disturb the flow of the cue at all.

Hey Swash, Jeff is more than likely talking about when he's playing music on shuffle. If he's feeling particularly adventurous, he can put the CD into iTunes again and join all the tracks before converting them, but I'm sure he has more important things to do than find the Rhino version of Ben-Hur!

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 6:08 AM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)


Hey Swash, Jeff is more than likely talking about when he's playing music on shuffle. If he's feeling particularly adventurous, he can put the CD into iTunes again and join all the tracks before converting them, but I'm sure he has more important things to do than find the Rhino version of Ben-Hur!


I listen to music in random playlists all the time and am never bothered when music cuts off in the middle.
And it's the last thing anyone should consider when making a CD.

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 6:15 AM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

Ah, well, I rarely ever listen to anything at random, so that didn't occur to me.

Still… is it more effort to join the tracks while ripping than it is to scan through a voluminous track to get to the cue that's what you wanted to listen to? The “Battle In the Snow” example is a really good one.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 6:36 AM   
 By:   jwb   (Member)



And In the case of Matrix Reloaded, had I noticed the climactic cues were going to be assembled into a thirteen minute suite on the LaLaLand set, I may have skipped buying the album altogether. Simply put: If I have to fast-forward through five, seven, ten minutes of someone else's absurd concept of "musical flow" to hear what I want, guess what album isn't going to get played? Or even purchased?


I think editing cue's together can work, but they don't always work.

More importantly what pissed me off about Reloaded, aside from it not actually being a complete presentation, was that it has the dreaded tracks designed to be played immediately into the following track. This is fine if you want to hear it this way, I guess, but I often won't listen to a whole sequence and such and will opt to want to play just my favorite cues, but doing it this way you get a really terrible listening experience when the cues have been assembled this way. The cues might as well have been edited/crossfaded into each other to form a longer cue, IMHO. I guess if I really wanted I could do an uncompressed rip and join the cues that do this and the problem would be solved, but I shouldn't have to.

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 6:48 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

More importantly what pissed me off about Reloaded, aside from it not actually being a complete presentation, was that it has the dreaded tracks designed to be played immediately into the following track.

(The reason the set wasn't complete is if you look really, really carefully - it's not the fault of LLL but for one of the contributing artists and/or their label. I won't say which one, but its very obvious.)

Whats further confusing is that when I initially heard the "Neo Miraculous" cue on the old promo album was that it was its own track, which is (if it was indeed a promo copy) what Davis wanted it to be heard as. So ... why would you release an album that didn't reflect the composer's editing choice?

That said, there is no universal answer to this. I'm sure there are more than a few soundtrack cues that I love where they're simply edited together shorter bits and my tin ear can't tell the difference. But damn, I figure if its obvious to me, it must be even more glaringly obvious to others.

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 7:00 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)



Whats further confusing is that when I initially heard the "Neo Miraculous" cue on the old promo album was that it was its own track, which is (if it was indeed a promo copy) what Davis wanted it to be heard as. So ... why would you release an album that didn't reflect the composer's editing choice?



That was my follow-up to Doug's forwarded response. If James Newton Howard actually produced the album himself, I'm sure he wouldn't have sequenced it in this way. It buries the standout cues in a way that's like when you really want to date this beautiful woman, but someone who's not even related to her makes you take out her ugly dialogue-scoring cue sister first.

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 9:12 AM   
 By:   Sirusjr   (Member)

The only time it really bothers me is when a source cue is cross-faded into another cue that I like, making it impossible to remove the source cue from my playlist without taking out the rest. Or as another example, on Quartet's The Santa Claus there is a Christmas Medley that I would love to remove but I can't because it is connected to an original cue. However, once I remove source cues I rarely edit scores down unless there are really jarring cues that don't fit with the listening experience.

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 9:22 AM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)



Whats further confusing is that when I initially heard the "Neo Miraculous" cue on the old promo album was that it was its own track, which is (if it was indeed a promo copy) what Davis wanted it to be heard as. So ... why would you release an album that didn't reflect the composer's editing choice?



That was my follow-up to Doug's forwarded response. If James Newton Howard actually produced the album himself, I'm sure he wouldn't have sequenced it in this way. It buries the standout cues in a way that's like when you really want to date this beautiful woman, but someone who's not even related to her makes you take out her ugly dialogue-scoring cue sister first.


Didn't Doug say in his response that Howard was involved in producing this album release, supervising it? Doesn't that mean Howard approved of the cue presentations as they are?

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 10:09 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)



Didn't Doug say in his response that Howard was involved in producing this album release, supervising it? Doesn't that mean Howard approved of the cue presentations as they are?


He did. I was saying that had JNH prepared the release himself (as in, back in 1993), I don't think he'd present it the way Intrada presented it.

They did prep and abandon an album for it back then, apparently (according to Gary LeMel via my phone call to him circa February '93, it was to be on Elektra), and that's probably what ended up leaking into the version we've had for years, with the highlights of the score standing on their own.

It's a great score, regardless of what I'm bellyaching about.

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 10:32 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

It buries the standout cues in a way that's like when you really want to date this beautiful woman, but someone who's not even related to her makes you take out her ugly dialogue-scoring cue sister first.

I've dated a lot of Blade Runner then.

 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
© 2014 Film Score Monthly. All Rights Reserved.