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 Posted:   Mar 22, 2014 - 3:54 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

I've also noticed the expansions of these late years Goldsmith scores getting 'above and beyond' praise. I think it does have a lot to do with the state of current scores, causing a re-evaluation of these Goldsmith scores that were, at the time, considered dull and repetitive by many fans, in comparison to his stellar work of the 60's, 70's and early/mid 80's.
I've almost fallen into the trap of thinking 'wow, sounds amazing, must get it', but having been unable to sit through the expanded Nemesis and seeing the comment above about this score reminding a listener of U.S Marshals in a good way (!!), I will remember which era Goldsmith I enjoy and act accordingly.

 
 Posted:   Mar 22, 2014 - 5:42 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

I've also noticed the expansions of these late years Goldsmith scores getting 'above and beyond' praise. I think it does have a lot to do with the state of current scores, causing a re-evaluation of these Goldsmith scores that were, at the time, considered dull and repetitive by many fans, in comparison to his stellar work of the 60's, 70's and early/mid 80's.
I've almost fallen into the trap of thinking 'wow, sounds amazing, must get it', but having been unable to sit through the expanded Nemesis and seeing the comment above about this score reminding a listener of U.S Marshals in a good way (!!), I will remember which era Goldsmith I enjoy and act accordingly.


Agree! Just like how the movie The Sum Of All Fears plays way better than it did a decade ago, the score sounds better because of how poor Hollywood has gotten in most every capacity.

Affleck's Jack Ryan was all right until he started running. I could actually see him making a much better Jack Ryan NOW, oddly enough.

 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2014 - 9:06 AM   
 By:   WillGoldNewtonBarryGrusin   (Member)

I've also noticed the expansions of these late years Goldsmith scores getting 'above and beyond' praise. I think it does have a lot to do with the state of current scores, causing a re-evaluation of these Goldsmith scores that were, at the time, considered dull and repetitive by many fans, in comparison to his stellar work of the 60's, 70's and early/mid 80's.
I've almost fallen into the trap of thinking 'wow, sounds amazing, must get it', but having been unable to sit through the expanded Nemesis and seeing the comment above about this score reminding a listener of U.S Marshals in a good way (!!), I will remember which era Goldsmith I enjoy and act accordingly.


I disagree. I believe the reception of a lot of late Goldsmith suffered from a) overexposure of his sound and b) bad representation on the released albums. People were either fed up with his sound or could not see the big picture.

The expanded versions prove that Goldsmith was still at the top of his game when a director appreciated him. I was not a particular fan of his score to "The Sum of All Fears" before - but now I love it because the new CD offers a much better understanding of the score´s ideas.

Of course, taste is subjective - this is not an attack on anyone.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2014 - 9:51 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

"People were either fed up with his sound or could not see the big picture...
Of course, taste is subjective - this is not an attack on anyone"
---------------------------
No attack taken. It's all about good discussion and debate around here smile
I never grew fed up of any Goldsmith sound. It's evident he streamlined his way of working to anyone who listened to his music over the decades. I missed the incredible counterpoint and inventiveness that got replaced by his more programmed writing and 30 or 40 minutes of that style was not as interesting to me than the 30 or 40 minutes I heard of his older scores.
Sure, expansions can highlight a bigger picture, but it's still a sound against sound thing, so I don't think it's about not seeing some perceived newer, bigger picture.
I've heard classic Goldsmith expansions that still don't sound greater than some amazing original album edits.
But yeah, it's all taste and subjectivity.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2014 - 10:02 AM   
 By:   captain_avis   (Member)

Goldsmith's overall style definitely changed over the last decade of his life. I like many of his scores written in this new style, but I feel that he had a far greater number written on autopilot, so to speak, than in his earlier career.

I think, for example, that The Mummy, Star Trek:Insurrection and Timeline are stellar scores written in this style. Sum of All Fears and Star Trek: Nemesis, to cite two recent re-releases, just don't do it for me. They both have a couple of outstanding tracks (The Mission, Shinzon's Theme in the Nemesis Credits), but the bulk of the rest of those scores are just so grating and droning that I can't stand to listen to the full scores.

Sum of All Fears may well be a four star score ranked against today's typical blockbuster scores, but there's not way it's any better than 2.5 stars when ranked against the rest of Goldsmith's discography. Just my two cents!

Chris.

 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2014 - 10:24 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

Goldsmith's overall style definitely changed over the last decade of his life. I like many of his scores written in this new style, but I feel that he had a far greater number written on autopilot, so to speak, than in his earlier career.


The equivalent of seeing a top-form Charlton Heston in Ben-Hur, El Cid and Planet of the Apes, and then watching him later, going through the motions in The Last Hard Men or Airport 75.

 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2014 - 2:47 PM   
 By:   spielboy   (Member)

I was not a particular fan of his score to "The Sum of All Fears" before - but now I love it because the new CD offers a much better understanding of the score´s ideas.


I think that of expanded releases like GREMLINS, INNERSPACE or STAR TREK V.

but I'd like to know which are those great new cues that turn this average-to-good Goldsmith late score into something completely new and incredible... a revelation???!!

 
 Posted:   Mar 27, 2014 - 4:57 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

The Sum Of All Fears was the last Goldsmith score that managed to truly surprise me. I had been listening to Jerry Goldsmith's music for years, and of course I had become familiar with his various styles... there was the avant-garde Goldsmith, the Americana Goldsmith, the Stravinsky-symphonic Goldsmith, etc... and of course, I knew the type of thriller sound he favored in the late 1990s...

When the Tom Clancy inspired terrorist thriller The Sum of all Fears opened with that glorious operatic and elegiac soprano/choral cue, well, that really made me sit up in my seat and I thought: "holy smoke, I did not see that one coming."

I skipped the soundtrack back then because of its obvious shortcomings (particularly running time), but the LaLaLand release put it back on the map for me. I finally listened to this fine release yesterday. (Still have to find some time to read the booklet notes.)

 
 Posted:   Apr 4, 2014 - 3:38 PM   
 By:   The Projectionist   (Member)

Did anyone catch onto this? On the track "That Went Well" on the LLL release uses an electronic choir, but on the original album real choir is used.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2014 - 8:44 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

Did anyone catch onto this? On the track "That Went Well" on the LLL release uses an electronic choir, but on the original album real choir is used.

Haven't caught this choir issue yet, but there are several other infuriating editorial decisions - the first being the previously mentioned segueing of "Clear The Stadium" (and the dropping of the crucial last note) - the other being the nonsense bolting of "Shoot Him" to "Changes". If anything, "Shoot Him" should have been bolted to the end of "Deserted Lab" since it completes that musical/dramatic sequence. "Changes" is a stand-alone cue with a unique musical/dramatic statement to make.

Keeping "Changes" and "Clear The Stadium" as stand-alone cues *should* have been a no-brainer.

A real shame because the content/sound is otherwise first rate. At least it's not needlessly split over 2 disks like Patriot Games.

Unlike the Star Trek re-issues I'm finding I can't lose ANY of the original Jack Ryan CDs!

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2014 - 9:04 AM   
 By:   Maleficio   (Member)

Did anyone catch onto this? On the track "That Went Well" on the LLL release uses an electronic choir, but on the original album real choir is used.

I find this hard to believe.

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2014 - 10:15 AM   
 By:   Advise & Consent   (Member)

Did anyone catch onto this? On the track "That Went Well" on the LLL release uses an electronic choir, but on the original album real choir is used.

I find this hard to believe.


Would you believe?



 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2014 - 3:58 PM   
 By:   The Projectionist   (Member)

Did anyone catch onto this? On the track "That Went Well" on the LLL release uses an electronic choir, but on the original album real choir is used.

I find this hard to believe.


Did you order it?

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2014 - 5:09 PM   
 By:   Maleficio   (Member)

Did anyone catch onto this? On the track "That Went Well" on the LLL release uses an electronic choir, but on the original album real choir is used.

I find this hard to believe.


Did you order it?


I do have it but I never had the original release.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 6, 2014 - 6:17 AM   
 By:   trstnvnk   (Member)

Did anyone catch onto this? On the track "That Went Well" on the LLL release uses an electronic choir, but on the original album real choir is used.

When I listened to it for the first time I indeed thought there was something off about the choir in that track. But I just compared the two releases with headphones and the sound the same though

 
 Posted:   Apr 6, 2014 - 7:16 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

It definitely sounds fake in the LLL version, but it could also be that the album mix (rightly) buried the male choir in a way that conceals its fakery better than the LLL mix. If that makes any sense. But it's definitely way too pronounced on the LLL version.

 
 Posted:   Apr 7, 2014 - 4:37 AM   
 By:   Jehannum   (Member)

This sounds interesting. I have both releases & will compare them tonight.

 
 Posted:   Apr 7, 2014 - 9:10 PM   
 By:   Steve H   (Member)

Did anyone catch onto this? On the track "That Went Well" on the LLL release uses an electronic choir, but on the original album real choir is used.

Mmm.....I've listened to this track ,Thanks a Lot/That Went Well, a few times now. At 1.30 It sounds like a real choir to me. If that's what your referring to. Though I do hear the synth choir trailing off at around 1.56. Haven't compared the two tracks yet though.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 17, 2014 - 3:23 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

Okay, I’ve been listening to this CD a lot over the last few weeks. The content is wonderful, an under-appreciated gem, and the sound quality is excellent.

But the sequencing/editing is significantly flawed in places. Some of the "segued" cues don't fit together at all well. Musical statements are drowned.

The sequence below would present the music far more effectively IMHO. Overlaps should be disposed of altogether, and cues with unique musical statements should stand alone:

01 The Mission
02 Do It! / I’ll Go / The Bomb
03 14 Months
04 The Deal
05 Thanks A Lot / That Went Well (with a breather between cues, not an overlap!)
06 The Shipment / Moscow Time
07 Nice Going / The Docks
08 Mr Spassky / The Lab
09 The Reservoir / Night Landing / Deserted Lab / Shoot Him
10 Changes
11 Clear The Stadium (Film Version)
12 Not The Russians / Man Your Aircraft
13 Further Aggression / State Of War
14 Supplies
15 To The Docks
16 Real Time
17 Cabot Is Dead / His Name Is Olsen
18 Snap Count
19 Maximum Readiness / Get A Doctor
20 How Close?
21 The Same Air

Titles in BOLD are re-sequenced.

It’s too late now, I guess. But if LLL (or another label) ever re-issues this, I highly recommend the above re-sequencing.

 
 Posted:   Apr 17, 2014 - 5:54 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

I can't believe this is still an issue, after all these years. It doesn't even sound right musically the way some of these are presented.

 
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