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 Posted:   Jun 18, 2014 - 7:52 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Trying desperately to avoid another debate on this, but...

Darthbrett, these days many soundtracks are released directly in C&C with no previous A&A version. In that case, there is no 'original order' to program by, even if we wanted to. You also say we can choose our own program, but a) assembling a playlist of favourite cues in iTunes or whatever does not equal a proper soundtrack album and b) for people like me, an A&A album is part of the whole artistic package. The selection and sequencing of tracks, as conceived by the composer or record producer for maximum listening pleasure, is as important as the music itself. Soundtrack album programming is an artform in itself, and getting a soundtrack without it feels -- ironically -- incomplete to me.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2014 - 8:01 PM   
 By:   JamesSouthall   (Member)

I ordered a helicopter once after I found one that was surprisingly cheap. It was delivered but instead of a helicopter I got a box full of parts. I phoned up the guy who sold it and he said "You've got everything there to assemble a helicopter, also a load more things too - how great is that! You can build it just the way you want it!" I went on to the helicopter forum and all the guys there said they don't buy these things because they want helicopters, they really like the boxes they come in and they're so much better than the old days when you ordered a helicopter and some other guy had decided how it should be assembled and you didn't even get the other stuff that you don't actually need. And here I am left with boxes full of parts but I've no idea how to build a helicopter.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2014 - 8:05 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

big grin

 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2014 - 8:13 PM   
 By:   spielboy   (Member)

I changed my mind over the years.

yesterday, I wanted all that missing music (and I still do... sometimes), but more often than not, when I see "complete" scores coming out that you have to sit through +70min of music with cues 30 seconds long, repetitive music (cause in film you may have 10 min of NO SCORE at all between 2 similar cues), with 10 alternates, etc... then I remember those nice 45-min score albums.

it all depens on which score, of course.

I want an expanded MATINEE with the 'missing dad' music and that militar fanfare, etc? Of course! It will make for a better listening experience? Mmm...

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2014 - 8:14 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Trying desperately to avoid another debate on this, but...

Darthbrett, these days many soundtracks are released directly in C&C with no previous A&A version. In that case, there is no 'original order' to program by, even if we wanted to. You also say we can choose our own program, but a) assembling a playlist of favourite cues in iTunes or whatever does not equal a proper soundtrack album and b) for people like me, an A&A album is part of the whole artistic package. The selection and sequencing of tracks, as conceived by the composer or record producer for maximum listening pleasure, is as important as the music itself. Soundtrack album programming is an artform in itself, and getting a soundtrack without it feels -- ironically -- incomplete to me.



That's all true, but this thread (as outlined by the OP) is mainly concerned with albums that existed before C&C became commonplace.
"Then", as opposed to "now".

 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2014 - 8:22 PM   
 By:   Other Tallguy   (Member)

For clarification:

The point of the thread isn't: "Which albums were good?"

It's: "Which albums were so good that you are at least as likely to, or more likely to, play them than a C&C representation".

Cheers


Well that will be Red October, Close Encounters, and Explorers. Not Star Trek: The Motion Picture or Thunderball. Star Wars is a 50/50 shot.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2014 - 8:24 PM   
 By:   JamesSouthall   (Member)

Hunt for Red October is a good shout. Original album much better.

 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2014 - 8:31 PM   
 By:   AlexCope   (Member)

I ordered a helicopter once after I found one that was surprisingly cheap. It was delivered but instead of a helicopter I got a box full of parts. I phoned up the guy who sold it and he said "You've got everything there to assemble a helicopter, also a load more things too - how great is that! You can build it just the way you want it!" I went on to the helicopter forum and all the guys there said they don't buy these things because they want helicopters, they really like the boxes they come in and they're so much better than the old days when you ordered a helicopter and some other guy had decided how it should be assembled and you didn't even get the other stuff that you don't actually need. And here I am left with boxes full of parts but I've no idea how to build a helicopter.

Forget watermelons. I will not buy this helicopter.

 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2014 - 9:05 PM   
 By:   JeffM   (Member)

I ordered a helicopter once after I found one that was surprisingly cheap. It was delivered but instead of a helicopter I got a box full of parts. I phoned up the guy who sold it and he said "You've got everything there to assemble a helicopter, also a load more things too - how great is that! You can build it just the way you want it!" I went on to the helicopter forum and all the guys there said they don't buy these things because they want helicopters, they really like the boxes they come in and they're so much better than the old days when you ordered a helicopter and some other guy had decided how it should be assembled and you didn't even get the other stuff that you don't actually need. And here I am left with boxes full of parts but I've no idea how to build a helicopter.

But what if they sent you a helicopter with the propeller on the side, the cockpit in the back, the controls on the outside, the landing skids on the top...

That's how A&A feels to us C&C proponents.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2014 - 9:18 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Far too many to list.

 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2014 - 11:11 PM   
 By:   Adam B.   (Member)

I only recently discovered Goldsmith's Medicine Man on the Varese disc. I've only seen the film once so I can't say how complete it is but it is one fabulous listen. No C&C necessary.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2014 - 5:02 AM   
 By:   Trent Easton Navarro   (Member)

The Mummy and The 13th Warrior, both by Goldsmith

Both feature all the highlights and play smoothly.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2014 - 5:26 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

That's all true, but this thread (as outlined by the OP) is mainly concerned with albums that existed before C&C became commonplace.
"Then", as opposed to "now".


I know. I was responding to something DarthBrett said, not the original topic.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2014 - 6:20 AM   
 By:   CinemaScope   (Member)




That's all true, but this thread (as outlined by the OP) is mainly concerned with albums that existed before C&C became commonplace.
"Then", as opposed to "now".


Yup, & for me that translates to sixties LP's, many of which have been released on CD, but more than few are still waiting & may never be released on CD. The best of both worlds is when the album & original score is released in the same package. For The Carpetbaggers I mostly listen to the original score, but Sebastian, I prefer the album. A stumbling block is the playing time of a lot of these LP's 24m-30m. It's never bothered me, & didn't bother anyone at the time, but these days some people seem to insist on at least 40m or more. Remember the bashing Intrada got for releasing the 28m Mary Queen Of Scots album (I think it was just a couple of posters that went on & on about it).

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2014 - 7:42 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

I think "MARY, QUEEN OF SCOTS" is a sweet album at 28 minutes.

Greatness isn't measured by length, as the actress said to the bishop. (And I have no idea why we say that to exaggerate the innuendo!)

I do think the unreleased music is great, however, so I don't think I'd call it as one that I'd listen to more than a complete release equivalent.

That one would be more a 50-50 for me.

There are lots of instances where a C&C release has made the original album release redundant. I have no desire to play the original album program of "THE BLACK HOLE" over the Intrada C&C release, for instance. It's just not needed any more.

There are other instances for me where I flip between the two, because the album was such a great program. "STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE" is this for me. The C&C is essential but that album played great and is a different, less "heavy" experience than the C&C score—and sometimes I'm more in the mood for that.

And then there are instances where it just doesn't seem necessary because the album was so great and as I said at the outset, "THE KNACK" is an example of that for me. It says everything and flows beautifully. I'd buy a C&C and I'd play it, but it wouldn't get preference over the album.

And it was the things that fall into that last category I was hoping for.

Cheers

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2014 - 8:20 AM   
 By:   danbeck   (Member)

I ordered a helicopter once after I found one that was surprisingly cheap. It was delivered but instead of a helicopter I got a box full of parts. I phoned up the guy who sold it and he said "You've got everything there to assemble a helicopter, also a load more things too - how great is that! You can build it just the way you want it!" I went on to the helicopter forum and all the guys there said they don't buy these things because they want helicopters, they really like the boxes they come in and they're so much better than the old days when you ordered a helicopter and some other guy had decided how it should be assembled and you didn't even get the other stuff that you don't actually need. And here I am left with boxes full of parts but I've no idea how to build a helicopter.

But what if they sent you a helicopter with the propeller on the side, the cockpit in the back, the controls on the outside, the landing skids on the top...


Or, worse, without the propeller, the landing skids and the controls... some helicopters missed this other stuff that someone decided you don't need, but then they didn't flew...

Back to the soundtracks topic, I agree with the comment that in the LP era Goldsmith album sequences were sometimes a bit awkyard, usually including the climatic cue at the end of side one and missing a sence of musical progression at the end of the album. His Psycho Ii album was a good example of that. John Williams was a better assembler of albums in that regard, keeping more the sence of storytelling in his albums, presenting the main themes at the start of the album and the climatic sequences usually at the end of the album.

Some other good A&A albums that were not yet mentioned are:

Young Sherlock Holmes - it is very short compared to the full score but the music selection is perfect, capturing the main highlights of the score.

Jaws 3-d - is a good album in terms of music selection, but the track order also suffer the LP style of including the climatic cue at the end of side A. It works much better in chronological order.
I like a lot this album, but was disapointed at the time discoveruping that lots of the music is different to the film version (its an early version of the score,probably assembled before reediting and rescoring sessions occurred). I want a C&C of this one.

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2014 - 8:27 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

Scores that I enjoy in album fashion that had C&C releases (but in many of these cases I also like the C&C):

Patrick Doyle - Dead Again
Cliff Eidelman - Star Trek Undiscovered Country
Elliot Goldenthal - Pet Sematary
John Harrison - Day of the Dead
James Horner - Aliens
Dennis McCarthy - Star Trek Generations
Alan Silvestri - Judge Dredd
Alan Silvestri - Predator 2 (has upcoming C&C)
Christopher Young - Jennifer 8

Of course there are many albums that I like that haven't had expansions, if I didn't like them I wouldn't hold on to them.

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2014 - 12:28 PM   
 By:   scottthompson   (Member)

I'll go with one of my favorite CD presentations and scores of all time:

Michael Kamen's DON JUAN DE MARCO

I have heard the complete score (in the film and from underworld sources) and it does not have near the impact as the commercial CD presentation. Though not complete, the lengthy suites are arranged in context to major stories in the film, and as a listening experience it is just perfection. The music flows like a good symphony with specific ideas skillfully woven into the fabric and continuity of the larger themes. Contrasting orchestral depth and delicacy. Flawless beginning and finale. Ideally paced and never dull, overlong, overstated or repetitive. Beautiful and harmonious throughout. Well recorded and performed. A must have.

The composer is not amongst my favorites overall, but this score and its CD arrangement was truly inspired. Full of one new idea after another in perfect plotting, yet maintaining thematic integrity throughout. Like reading a good book in 45 muntes.

SCOTT

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2014 - 1:00 PM   
 By:   Mike Skerritt   (Member)

I ordered a helicopter once after I found one that was surprisingly cheap. It was delivered but instead of a helicopter I got a box full of parts. I phoned up the guy who sold it and he said "You've got everything there to assemble a helicopter, also a load more things too - how great is that! You can build it just the way you want it!" I went on to the helicopter forum and all the guys there said they don't buy these things because they want helicopters, they really like the boxes they come in and they're so much better than the old days when you ordered a helicopter and some other guy had decided how it should be assembled and you didn't even get the other stuff that you don't actually need. And here I am left with boxes full of parts but I've no idea how to build a helicopter.

Moreover why is this helicoper mauve? The brochure said lavender.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2014 - 1:11 PM   
 By:   Ford A. Thaxton   (Member)

One great album that don't get the attention they deserve

Brian May: The Day After Halloween (aka Snap Shot), the original CITADEL LP while not as long as the later 1M1 release and not in show order was a vastly more enjoyable presentation to LISTEN TO as far as I'm concerned.


Ford A. Thaxton

 
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