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 Posted:   Aug 18, 2014 - 3:12 PM   
 By:   The CinemaScope Cat   (Member)

what this thread proves is that you cannot highlight how bad somebody was - even if they were - without uncovering a fan who reprimands you!

so was there no one who was universally regarded as shocking?!


I've long since learned that there isn't a bad movie that isn't loved by someone somewhere nor a great film that isn't despised by someone somewhere. Why should it be different in the film music world?

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 18, 2014 - 3:19 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)


Then there was Leroy Holmes, who never met a film score he couldn't butcher...


He has no competition. Virtually everyone would agree. Other choices will invariably be divisive.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 19, 2014 - 12:36 PM   
 By:   roy phillippe   (Member)

Percy Faith?! Ferrante & Teicher?! Bert Kaempfert (who btw never recorded a movie theme album to the best of my knowledge)?! I actually enjoy their albums...

Have you ever heard of Leroy Holmes?

I don't recall an album of movie themes by Kaempfert either. However, he did release his score to "A Man Could Get Killed". One of the themes from this film became "Strangers In The Night".
I saw Ferrante & Teicher in person a few times. Their technique as pianists was first rate. Also, they often wrote their own orchestrations.
In the pop piano world, Peter Nero recorded, with full orchestra, "The Theme Scene" (RCA, 1966) which included pop songs like "Help" as well as "Ship Of Fools" and "The Spy Who Came In From The Cold".

 
 Posted:   Aug 19, 2014 - 1:20 PM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

Imagine my disappointment when I found out that the De Vol orchestral theme was not included.




BUT...we got that great song from "The Adventures of Hadji Baba"!

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 19, 2014 - 1:43 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

Then there was Leroy Holmes, who never met a film score he couldn't butcher...

Yes, I remember that Leroy Holmes did three complete film scores back in the day: King Kong, Citizen Kane and Prisoner Of Zenda on the United Artists label that got negative reviews. Films In Review's Page Cook was particularly unhappy with the results.




Ah yes, Leroy Holmes. Don't forget that 4th piece of junk he did for UA records: A Star is Born.

About 1970 I picked up a 45 rpm of Rozsa's Private Life of Sherlock Holmes. If it didn't have Rozsa's name on it as composer I would not even recognized it! Real trash.

Leroy Holmes: A nightmare in the daytime! eek

 
 Posted:   Aug 19, 2014 - 1:59 PM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

Dana, I knew that if you put in an appearance at this thread it would be to mention Riddle's unfortunate self-mutilations. How could someone so talented at arranging do such utter damage to his own work?

I'll forever be mystified. I guess it's too late now to ask him that question in person...

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 19, 2014 - 2:01 PM   
 By:   governor   (Member)

Ettore Stratta's Moonraker on the Music from the Galaxies album.

Where does it come from ???

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 19, 2014 - 6:06 PM   
 By:   The CinemaScope Cat   (Member)

Ah yes, Leroy Holmes. Don't for that 4th piece of junk he did for UA records: A Star is Born

Actually I had forgotten. Thanks for reminding me ..... I think.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 19, 2014 - 7:56 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

Ah yes, Leroy Holmes. Don't forget that 4th piece of junk he did for UA records: A Star is Born

Actually I had forgotten. Thanks for reminding me ..... I think.




I delight in bringing back nightmares for people! smile

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 19, 2014 - 9:10 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

If only everyone would play film music as it is written and not desecrate the works of our "genius" film composers. What a boring world we would live in.

 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2014 - 9:39 AM   
 By:   ToneRow   (Member)

If only everyone would play film music as it is written and not desecrate the works of our "genius" film composers. What a boring world we would live in.

Onya - are you advocating "music for pleasure" as more interesting than music composed for dramatic purposes?

How do you feel about incidental music for stage plays? Is such music inferior to jazz?

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2014 - 10:02 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)



Onya - are you advocating "music for pleasure" as more interesting than music composed for dramatic purposes?

How do you feel about incidental music for stage plays? Is such music inferior to jazz?


I am simply advocating my belief that musicians and arrangers have every right to re-arrange and re-interpret music, whatever its origin or original purpose, however they may choose. Let the chips fall where they may. Our world is enriched by such interpretations. Seek out the good ones and ignore the bad.

Most or all of us will agree that the Leroy Holmes "film score" albums are awful both as film music interpretations and listening experiences on their own. However, virtually everything else that has been mentioned in this thread as a "mutilation" will elicit varying opinions.

I have gotten yelled at here for expressing my opinion that the first Hugo Montenegro UNCLE LP, the one on RCA with the red cover, is better than any of the show's original scores. Lots of people dismiss that album as "lounge music." I easily rank it in my top ten spy albums ever. And if that is how the music sounded in the show, the album's detractors would love it too.

My point is that I would rather have a range of interpretations - some admittedly awful, some surpassing the originals - than just the originals as written.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2014 - 10:15 AM   
 By:   Jim Doherty   (Member)

I've got to say, it would be hard to top those UA Leroy Holmes LPs, but two others I recall were a disco version of the theme from ALIEN on a 20th Century-Fox 12" disco single by a group called Menage, and a sickly rendition of one of the themes from NIGHT OF THE IGUANA, heard on a Wyncote LP:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WYNCOTE-ORCH-Night-Of-The-Iguana-1964-Stereo-WYNCOTE-LP-/260795264167?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item3cb89beca7

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2014 - 10:22 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Here is a gorgeous Michel Legrand piece mutilated by some guy named Bill Evans:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTfkrseTPFA

And here is a beautiful Alex North piece desecrated by some guy named Yusef Lateef:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhqQFs7huwU

Here's that Bill Evans guy again destroying a Johnny Mandel piece:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrWQndgX1QU

Oh, the indignity...

 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2014 - 10:46 AM   
 By:   ToneRow   (Member)


My point is that I would rather have a range of interpretations - some admittedly awful, some surpassing the originals - than just the originals as written.


thanks for the detailed explanation, Onya.

I think many FSMers have difficulty with the opinion that cover versions can be "better" than the original recordings.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2014 - 10:52 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)



I think many FSMers have difficulty with the opinion that cover versions can be "better" than the original recordings.


That is probably correct, but in many cases this may be based on an intellectual knowledge that something is not the original, rather than an objective assessment of the re-interpretation's merits (or lack thereof).

 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2014 - 6:30 PM   
 By:   dogplant   (Member)

I'm not fond of the disco version of the CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND theme....

Ha, this was the first music I heard from the film, played after a radio interview with Johnny in the UK. At that time, I only knew him from "Jaws" and "Star Wars" and a vague memory of "Towering Inferno" so I was a bit puzzled, to say the least, at hearing this groovalicious poppy music. And then, I went to see the man himself conduct a suite of the music at the Royal Albert Hall 'LSO in Space' concert a week or so later. Boy, was I surprised! I am still quite fond of the disco version, and have it as a vinyl single as well as the closing track on Varese CD release of the Arista album.

No, my prize for most mutilated film theme (I won't say 'worst') goes to the wonderful Lalo Schifrin (for whom I have great affection and admiration) for his truly bonkers funkadelic arrangement of "Jaws":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKx15uDqtd4

Steve H, that 'Galactic Symphony' cover painting of the CE3K mothership is truly a wonder to behold. It looks like the aliens accidentally magnetized their spacecraft while hovering slowly over a used car lot.

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2014 - 7:19 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

Since we too often mistake opinion for fact, let's be clear.

It's not whether cover versions are better or worse than originals, but whether you prefer one or the other. It's fine if you prefer a cover version, but that doesn't make it better.

Our responses to music are subjective not objective, and it's silly to say a cover version is better in some objective, absolutist way. Especially since it wouldn't even exist without the original.

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2014 - 7:46 AM   
 By:   jackfu   (Member)

Now this is how to do it right https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTN1cC9s_6U

I thought Williams got it right with his own disco version of CE3K (thanks, Cat) especially compared to Meco’s Star Wars. I wonder if it was a decision to beat Meco to the punch on CE3K.
I also like Nostromo’s version of Alien – a little disco, a little Kraftwerk-ish techno-pop; but not so much Menage’s version (just dance music). And, sacrilege, I guess, I even listen to them at the end of the respective OST’s from time to time.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2014 - 1:32 PM   
 By:   roy phillippe   (Member)

Here is a gorgeous Michel Legrand piece mutilated by some guy named Bill Evans:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTfkrseTPFA

And here is a beautiful Alex North piece desecrated by some guy named Yusef Lateef:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhqQFs7huwU

Here's that Bill Evans guy again destroying a Johnny Mandel piece:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrWQndgX1QU

Oh, the indignity...


You obviously don't know a thing about "some guy named Bill Evans" or jazz in general. He recorded with many jazz artists most notably Miles Davis on "Kind Of Blue", one of the best selling jazz albums of all time. He also recorded with Stan Getz, Tony Bennett, and many others. Not to mention a catalog of recordings with his own group.
Johnny Mandel respected Evans to the point where he composed pieces just for him. Mandel didn't seem to mind that Evans was "destroying" his music.

 
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