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Just to repeat what I've said on the Rozsa forum:
I am certainly prepared to contribute substantially for this and hope it goes ahead. For many would-contributors success is going to come down to the logistics of how it will work and will require close working of details with James Fitzpatrick and the use of an established fundraising platform to ensure confidence so that money is not taken if funds raised are insufficient.
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As expected, some people will be concerned over the safety of any money that they wish to invest in the fund and we will make certain that your money is safe and refundable if we have to,our objective is to use that money for the projects that we want to do and that you want us to do. a fund is the safest way to do this and it will be properly managed. I don't know how many people are real film-music fans,but it must run to several thousand worldwide,it has to,otherwise why produce filmscores on cd and vinyl.We should aim to have a realistic member base of around 1000,can we do that,can we do more,I don't know, the more people we have the cheaper it will become,but we need a start,James will make the air a little clearer when he can.
MY own involvement in Film-music came about as a teenager,my first ever album was KING OF KINGS itself,it was fascinating, spiritual and moving,the same as the movie,then followed BEN HUR and the rest is history. In the 1960's I became friends with Miklos Rozsa,many letters were written between us and his generosity to me was inspiring,we talked about the possibility of forming a society to honour his work and he granted me permission to form the first Miklos Rozsa Society, I still have his hand-written letter granting that permission along with other of his letters,postcards and yes,his Xmas cards to me,they are treasured by me. Miklos once asked me,Robert,do you have my boxed albums of BEN HUR and KING OF KINGS, no I said,just the UK MGM albums. A few weeks later a parcel arrived from MGM Records with the 2 boxsets of the deluxe albums,plus BEN HUR volume 2,they arrived just before xmas, my present from Miklos Rozsa.
As for the first Miklos Rozsa Society,well it never happened as non-co-operation from MGM and others scuppered the idea.Did I ever meet Miklos, yes in London,in the 1970,s.I am proud and lucky to have known him.
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Let's just clarify this. I'm presuming that the 1,000 prospective members receive the CDs they desire free, but presumably everyone else in the great unwashed public can buy it too, to be viable.
So the thousand provide $100 each. That's $100,000. Other than the satisfaction of getting it actually recorded, do they recoup from profits? Y'see, the 'members' would have to be given free copies of course, but the general punters would pay only standard rates for a CD. Am I right? Are the investors shareholders? Do they get a slice of profits? Or is the general public excluded, which would mean effectively that this was not a 'release' but a private exclusive agreement between private members. How would that relate to future leasing for broadcasting etc.? Or is it that it's a sort of LOAN that is paid back from profits? In that case again, what does Tadlow get out of that? Not much other than treasure in heaven.
I'm probably being stupid here, but it looks like an act of altruism from the few, that allows the many to buy a new CD. Why would folk out there contribute, if they could just wait and buy the thing that the few funded? Are the few proportionately refunded? What profit is in that for Tadlow?
I'm just thinking out loud.
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Also the best crowdfund projects show exactly what the money is going to go towards, broken down, which also helps.
I've been involved in kickstarter projects where a voiceover salary partly depended on the funding, but it was always paid upfront or soon after. I'll consult with some of these to see if there are particular pitfalls with monitoring etc. and report back their experiences.
Part of the joy of hearing a new release for me is the thought that it's now OUT THERE and accessible to the repertoire, that people can buy it, or broadcast it, that the music is known and disseminated. On a more selfish level, that vindicates my taste in the big world out there, and more selfishly still, of course, I get to hear it myself.
There'd be no joy in it for me if I was listening to something that isn't truly out there. It'd be like an Arab Emirates private concert or something. But I'm not knocking it, I just don't yet get the business model.
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The other thing about crowdfunding is that later down the line, when the project, be it a recording, a computer game, a book etc., is released, the general public who didn't fund in advance can then buy it. It's to 'kickstart', get the initial inertia overcome. But it depends on goodwill and perks from the few. Most cynical people will just wait until it's available and let the few put down the money. But that would imply perks for the few?
Crowdfunding by Kickstarter is about paying in advance for something. That guarantees sales, but you still need new sales after it's out there to make a profit. But a bigger investment like $250 would need a return, otherwise it's a donation, charity.
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Please don't think I'm wet blanketing, I do want to see it work, but it needs thought out.
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Posted: |
Feb 1, 2017 - 8:02 PM
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By: |
pp312
(Member)
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Part of the joy of hearing a new release for me is the thought that it's now OUT THERE and accessible to the repertoire, that people can buy it, or broadcast it, that the music is known and disseminated. On a more selfish level, that vindicates my taste in the big world out there, and more selfishly still, of course, I get to hear it myself.
Second this. (In fact I said the same thing in different words a few posts back). I would only add one word not included here: posterity.
I wonder if it would help for the more enthusiastic to state here how high they'd be prepared to go. I would go to $250US. I would consider it an investment. And surely people like Doug Raynes, Rozsaphile etc, people known to be rolling in dough, could manage even more. (No, I'm not putting in a smiley. It might even be true). Probably not much point arranging anything without an indication of what sort of money people are prepared to part with, and how many there are.
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Posted: |
Feb 1, 2017 - 10:05 PM
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By: |
Dr Smith
(Member)
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I have tried to skim through the entire thread before commenting, but I may have missed a few good ideas.
Kickstarter has a brand presence, and people trust it, so maybe stick with a winning formula.
If $60,000 is the critical amount to fund a re-recording, let's stick with that for brainstorming purposes.
I would love to be able to buy the re-recording for $30-$45 for a 3 CD set.
I would gladly put up $40 for that set, which means at that price point, 1500 people must do the same.
People who wish to invest more money would get discounts on additional sets, say $40 for the first, $35 for the second, $30 for a third, after which, no additional discount.if the funds collected are over $60,000, make more than a 2,000 CD run.
If the project doesn't go forward, all funds are returned.
If this project is successful, we in the film score community will obviously fund new projects which have broad support.
I say let's do it!
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Posted: |
Feb 2, 2017 - 12:21 AM
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By: |
Dana Wilcox
(Member)
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Much as I would love to see everyone get exactly what they want, exactly what I want would be a remastered reissue of the Rhino 2-disc set with significant sound improvement, and of course if new technology made it possible to spruce up the MGM K of K re-recording as featured on the FSM Rozsa box I would pay extra for that as well. Absolutely no interest in a new recording, however, so no $ to a Kickstarter project on that from this end.
Could you expand on this, Dana? I'm just not quite getting on your wave length. You want the original score in better sound, but would not be interested in a modern recording of that score? So...are you afraid the new performance would fall short of the original, because I can't quite see otherwise what your objection might be.
As for Rozsa's re-recording, I always thought the sound on that was brilliant.
I thought that too, back in the day when the MGM LP was originally released in its pretty blue box with the souvenir program included. What showed up on the FSM Rozsa box however sounded somewhat the worse for wear, and was roundly criticized (by others than myself) for its sound quality at the time the box set was released -- one FSMer described it as sounding as though someone was running a vacuum cleaner around the studio while the music was being recorded. I tend to regard the music as heard in the film, or re-recordings conducted by the composer, as reference recordings for the music. In that context, my observation has been that newer recordings do typically fall short of the originals, however beautiful and clear the sound might be from a technical standpoint. It is not always so, and new recordings under the baton of the composer are not always very good, but I have been disappointed too often by bright new recordings of my favorite scores to get very excited about them any more.
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Much as I would love to see everyone get exactly what they want, exactly what I want would be a remastered reissue of the Rhino 2-disc set with significant sound improvement
Dana, Im a little lost on your BEN-HUR quote above. The big FSM release of BEN HUR did present the same cues as on the Rhino 2cd set in the first 2 discs. So isnt the FSM edition or program feature an improved remastered sound? or are your referring to a stand alone reissue of the Rhino program with improved sound?
But don't forget Dana just about dislikes almost ever new recording I have ever done ... we obviously have different views on performance and sound quality ? So I know I cannot convert him to my way of thinking .....yet
Keep trying, James, who knows? I'm just trying to keep you hustling. I actually have a few of your releases in my collection and have no issues with either sound quality (viewed technically) or performances, at least among the more recent recordings. In truth, I had a lot more issues with the Varese series of re-recordings with the RSNO than I have had with yours (other than a couple of the early COPP fiascos), and few if any problems with the Morgan/Stromberg (RED RIVER being a major exception) and classic Charles Gerhardt re-dos. Also I am an unabashed admirer of James Conlon's magnificent VERTIGO recording, which combines virtual perfection in tempo, balance and performance with stellar sound quality, not to mention the gorgeous music itself. EXODUS is my favorite one from you, in large part because the RCA/BMG/Buddha "original soundtrack" is so badly recorded and because you included in your recording a lot of good music that was omitted from the LP and subsequent CD releases. So, good job there especially.
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Posted: |
Feb 2, 2017 - 1:20 AM
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By: |
Lokutus
(Member)
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I have tried to skim through the entire thread before commenting, but I may have missed a few good ideas.
Kickstarter has a brand presence, and people trust it, so maybe stick with a winning formula.
If $60,000 is the critical amount to fund a re-recording, let's stick with that for brainstorming purposes.
I would love to be able to buy the re-recording for $30-$45 for a 3 CD set.
I would gladly put up $40 for that set, which means at that price point, 1500 people must do the same.
People who wish to invest more money would get discounts on additional sets, say $40 for the first, $35 for the second, $30 for a third, after which, no additional discount.if the funds collected are over $60,000, make more than a 2,000 CD run.
If the project doesn't go forward, all funds are returned.
If this project is successful, we in the film score community will obviously fund new projects which have broad support.
I say let's do it!
Except that if you are supposed to raise 60,000 just to cover the recording fees, who will then pay for producing these "perks" discs? Who will cover let's say shipping of 600 CDs to all contributors worldwide? All these costs as well as all costs to produce AND SHIP all the physical perks must be included in the initial goal price.
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I like the enthusiastic people here who want something and are prepared to support it to "make it happen".
