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If you want to get really technical, there hasn't been anything "new" in Pop music (for example) since probably the days of Motown, the Beatles' Revolver and Beach Boys' Pet Sounds. It's almost entirely from a playbook that has miraculously held together for over fifty years (via the paying, casual listening public).
Pop was for a long time a very hedged-in compositional style.
I wonder what you think of Roxy Music (early, first half-dozen or so albums) or the soundscape of Ferry today? There was originality at that point, as Debussy was to the Romantics in classical. Or the big concept albums of Floyd etc.?
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If you want to get really technical, there hasn't been anything "new" in Pop music (for example) since probably the days of Motown, the Beatles' Revolver and Beach Boys' Pet Sounds. It's almost entirely from a playbook that has miraculously held together for over fifty years (via the paying, casual listening public).
Pop was for a long time a very hedged-in compositional style.
I wonder what you think of Roxy Music (early, first half-dozen or so albums) or the soundscape of Ferry today? There was originality at that point, as Debussy was to the Romantics in classical. Or the big concept albums of Floyd etc.?
I have a couple of albums by RM (Siren is one) and like them, especially Bryan Ferry's mannered vocals. Not a fan of Floyd, but I heard their music throughout the 80s, especially at the University. They both had some very creative music at points, but again, not really doing much new beyond what had been done on Pet Sounds, really. Whatever you think of the Beach Boys, Brian Wilson was on his way to becoming a great composer with the likes of McCartney/Lennon until the drugs did the super fry on him. In fact, I have to recommend "Surf's Up" as an example of advanced art music techniques being applied in about as expressive a piece of music as has ever been written (well, let's not go to the Beethoven late era Kammermusik). No joke (believe me, I had a hard time with the Beach Boys until I actually studied up on them).
The only "new" things in that have happened in Pop since the 60s are spawned by technological advances in both engineering and production (not to mention sample libraries, which are...on the downlow here...slowly taking over for human drummers at this point, and it's only a matter of time before a symphony orchestra and all instruments integral will follow, as hard to believe as that is, trust me on this it's in the works this very second).
From a strictly musical standpoint, it's all the same and has been for decades. That said, there are bands I love very much in the genre (and subs). With Pop so much of it is truly subjective, however most often what people like about the genre is more related to things that have NOTHING to do with the actual quality of the music, be it fashion, "coolness", liking someone who likes it, etc.
This is no slam to people who like Pop/Rock/Country/Hip Hop/whatever. I'm one of you. But drop the subjectivity and there ain't a single Pop song that measures up to the worse of, say, Mahler.
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I have to chime in on THE HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME. It was one of THE most expensive epics ever to come out of RKO and Charles Laughton's greatest performance out of many great performances he did onscreen. Because it was set in the church it was the first excursion into the religious idiom for Alfred and set the bar and tone for all such films he did after. THE SONG OF BERNADETTE, THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD and THE ROBE owe much to it (in fact THE ROBE's most exciting cue "The Rescue of Demetrius" is from HUNCHBACK). In addition the simple 2 note love theme he gives for the Hunchback's feelings for Esmeralda the gypsy is one of the most achingly vulnerable pieces of music ever written. The only Newman piece Bill Stromberg gave full glory to, it remains one of the earliest Newman classics and sometimes gets lost in the shuffle because it came out the same legendary year as WUTHERING HEIGHTS and GUNGA DIN (not forgetting Steiner's GONE WITH THE WIND) 1939.
Great post, Morricone. Yes, this is an early Newman effort which I actually love and which does not feel beholden to the "Steiner style", and you are 100% correct that it is the beginning of his "religious sound". I had to watch the film to really appreciate it, because to be frank that early Marco Polo Newman album is one of my least favorite that Bill Stromberg and John Morgan did, not really succeeding in capturing the Newman sound IMO. I think part of that is due to the performance (perhaps not enough time) and part due to the recording style of those earliest albums of theirs. I found it honestly a bit boring until I watched the film itself. They improved on it infinitely when they later did The Egyptian. John once told me that he wished they could record Hunchback again (in complete form) for their Tribute Film Classics label and I'm sure if they ever were able to fund it, they could greatly improve with a re-do.
Yavar
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This blogger loves Alfred as his favorite composer, and his list is fun to read and listen to.
http://filmscoreclicktrack.com/zing-went-the-newman-strings-of-my-heart/
I continue my newly emerging love affair with the man's music, today hearing "A Man Called Peter" for the first time and so loving it. He truly had a magical way with music, and when it came to strings....
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You picked up the FSM Man Called Peter just on my recommendation? I'm touched. 
Yavar
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You picked up the FSM Man Called Peter just on my recommendation? I'm touched.
Yavar
Yes, very nice score! I also was gifted the Tadlow Fall of the Roman Empire. I must say, Tiomkin's music seems like the kind that really grows on you. There are certain idiosyncracies to his orchestration choices that really give him a unique stamp.
Oh, I received the Tsunami Song of Bernadette and was vengefully disappointed. As warned the sound was really bad. This is another Oscar winner that deserves a modern treatment imo.
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Yes, very nice score! I also was gifted the Tadlow Fall of the Roman Empire. I must say, Tiomkin's music seems like the kind that really grows on you. There are certain idiosyncracies to his orchestration choices that really give him a unique stamp.
I have found that most Tiomkin scores *don't* grow on me. He is too sloppy and overwrought in his orchestration for me, an everything-and-the-kitchen-sink approach. In the films I find his music overbearing and...unsubtle, to put it mildly. Very little of of the clarity and finesse in orchestration that his teacher Glazunov has in his own music. (He also would never do painstaking historical musicological research like Rozsa or Newman would do.) He's part of the reason I can't stand Hitchcock's Shadow of a Doubt. I'm so glad Hitchcock discovered Herrmann.
All that said, I must admit that I do really enjoy his scores for The Alamo and Fall of the Roman Empire, and I'm very glad to have the Tadlow recordings of both...for the latter in particular the new recording made me realize how enjoyable the score was.
.
Yavar
Tiomkin can get profoundly convoluted in his orchestration choices. But after finding myself REALLY liking the Tadlow "Fall" I feel that this approach works for him in more cases than not. When it doesn't work, his music sounds hopelessly, needlessly stuff'd. When it works it sounds magical imo.
I'm a HUGE fan of the Hitchcock films from Rebecca to Shadow of a Doubt all the way up to and including Marnie. However, the score in SoaD was the weakest point of what was otherwise an excellent movie imp. One of the great films of that period. Maybe sometime you could give it another try, Yavar? It pays off.
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Received the two disc How the West Was Won last week. I definitely have to program out the songs (as well as the cornier music) because it drives me crazy lol! I just don't like it.
But the orchestral cues...I'm not over the high quality of those pieces. Alfred was really firing on all cylinders.
You know what? I'm actually listening to the Tadlow Alamo at least as much (perhaps because of the modern recording).
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Blown away by the SAE recording of Captain from Castile! I've never heard the score this well put together, and just a terrific listening experience. Once again my devotion to Alfred's music and legacy is reinforced.
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Blown away by the SAE recording of Captain from Castile! I've never heard the score this well put together, and just a terrific listening experience. Once again my devotion to Alfred's music and legacy is reinforced.
This release is amazing! I never thought the Newman score could sound so good on disc. Wish that Fox was able to or had combined this track into the film proper for the blu ray release.
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Blown away by the SAE recording of Captain from Castile! I've never heard the score this well put together, and just a terrific listening experience. Once again my devotion to Alfred's music and legacy is reinforced.
This release is amazing! I never thought the Newman score could sound so good on disc. Wish that Fox was able to or had combined this track into the film proper for the blu ray release.
I'm completely with you, Paul! I haven't seen the movie yet; all I know is I have two discs of awesome listening. What a score, ALFRED RULES!
I love being cheerleader for the greats lol!
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The movie is actually really good, but only films the first half of a much better historical novel by Samuel Shellabarger...I grew up with the film so it's a nostalgic favorite but when I read the book as an adult I was kinda blown away. The author was a Harvard history professor and he makes the past just come alive, plus he wrote characters with good depth. If you like Dumas for example I found this even better, personally.
Yavar
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The movie is actually really good, but only films the first half of a much better historical novel by Samuel Shellabarger...I grew up with the film so it's a nostalgic favorite but when I read the book as an adult I was kinda blown away. The author was a Harvard history professor and he makes the past just come alive, plus he wrote characters with good depth. If you like Dumas for example I found this even better, personally.
Yavar
The book sounds REALLY interesting. The SAE CoC is one of the best reccomendations you've given me, Yavar (and that's saying a lot, considering I'm pretty sure you've been batting 1000 in that area for me).
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