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"Fallen.." has grown on me over the years.
Terrific movie.
brm
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Skip the prologue and epilog and you have a masterpiece!
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The film is undeniably a technical masterwork but William Goldman's infamous takedown in THE BIG PICTURE is better than the film itself.
http://achtenblog.blogspot.com/2007/08/saving-private-ryan-goldman-essay.html
Hadn't seen the Goldman piece before. It's tasteless tripe. "MY way would have been better." Yes, some criticisms are valid, but Goldman is too self-satisfied to weigh all the evidence.
Actually, his takedown of L>A> CONFIDENTIAL is brilliant!
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Mr. Goldman is someone I have always admired and have loved much of his work, especially his masterful book on the 1967 Broadway season, THE SEASON, still the best thing he has ever done. He is entitled to his opinion of SAVING PRIVATE RYAN.
Nevertheless, I keep remembering his take down of THE RIGHT STUFF because they didn't follow his approach to the script, which was to dump all of the stuff having to do with Yeager and the tests at Muroc to concentrate on the Mercury Seven astronauts, basically ignoring a good deal of what the book of THE RIGHT STUFF was about--people who had "The Right Stuff."
Thus, I'm not so inclined to give myself over to Goldman's crotchety sour graping on RYAN.
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Basically this was supposed to be a digital and vinyl only release. We convinced UMG to let us do the vinyl, due this Fall, on one condition -- we get to do the CD as well. There is really nothing to add, less than 2 minutes, but it gave us the opportunity to have Mike write the notes and Jim do the artwork
Can't argue against that!
Yavar
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I love the movie, bookends and all.
You're entitled to your opinion and so is Goldman, without you calling what he wrote a "screed". Personally I had never seen it before, but he described my reaction to the film (and the terrible bookends in particular) to a T! There are so many great WWII films out there but this clumsily manipulative film doesn't belong anywhere near them IMO. I really cannot comprehend why so many people seem to worship this thing (and get SO offended if anyone offers criticism), however technically accomplished it is. For me, a war film tends to affect me more if there's some actual good character development and I CARE about the characters.
Yavar
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Eh, that's nothing; you should hear one of my relatives go off on "Titanic". Suffice to say, there is no love for Jack and Rose. ;-)
I hope to get her to let me record it one day and share it online.
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Two minutes of unreleased music, no remastering, so most of us would be repurchasing for the packaging and notes? I've bought all previous LLL Williams releases but on this I may pass but good luck with it.
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Well I dunno about supporting that comment, but I definitely support his claim to Shakespeare in Love being the superior and more deserving film of awards recognition. Though there are probably other films that year (Gods and Monsters? The Big Lebowski? L.A. Confidential? Good Will Hunting? American History X perhaps?) which were at least equally deserving.
Yavar
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Posted: |
Aug 1, 2018 - 6:42 PM
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By: |
Zoragoth
(Member)
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I love the movie, bookends and all.
You're entitled to your opinion and so is Goldman, without you calling what he wrote a "screed". Personally I had never seen it before, but he described my reaction to the film (and the terrible bookends in particular) to a T! There are so many great WWII films out there but this clumsily manipulative film doesn't belong anywhere near them IMO. I really cannot comprehend why so many people seem to worship this thing (and get SO offended if anyone offers criticism), however technically accomplished it is. For me, a war film tends to affect me more if there's some actual good character development and I CARE about the characters.
Yavar
You really nailed it, Yavar.
And one gets the feeling that if one thinks this particular movie not particularly good, one is viewed as being unpatriotic! You know, because reflexively liking WWII films = Patriotism.
What SAVING RYAN'S PRIVATES needed was the jaundiced eye of a Sam Fuller. Spielberg was the wrong fellow to make it, IMHO.
Speaking of bookends, this movie reminds me of how effectively he undercut SCHINDLER'S LIST and LINCOLN, the latter for which I really enjoyed and admired - up until that unnecessary, and to my mind, damaging ending.
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there are probably other films that year (Gods and Monsters? The Big Lebowski? L.A. Confidential? Good Will Hunting? American History X perhaps?) which were at least equally deserving.
LA Confidential and Good Will Hunting were both released in 1997 though, the year before SPR.
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You're right, whoops!
You really nailed it, Yavar.
Thanks!  But it's hardly a unique take on this film...Goldman accurately skewers the ending in particular:
"Just when you think Spielberg has stooped as low as even he can, new thresholds are reached. Four agonizing minutes of pretentious syrup, climaxing when Matt asks his wife has he been a good man? What is she going to answer? Her husband is clearly having a breakdown. She says yes and Matt—wait for it—he salutes!
Then Old Glory returns, waving at us for half a minute. I guess reminding us that God and Steven Spielberg are on the same side.
Medicinal Level—A.
Can't get much higher. Patriotism and the flag and easy answers galore. Phony and manipulative, all in the sense of Country."
And he's spot on for about 90% at least of the rest of his review too.
And one gets the feeling that if one thinks this particular movie not particularly good, one is viewed as being unpatriotic! You know, because reflexively liking WWII films = Patriotism.
Uh-huh. And like I said, I do like a lot of WWII films, a wide variety of them in fact. I even liked Dunkirk despite that awful score; somehow it still immersed me and made me care about the characters even if they were minimally fleshed out.
Speaking of bookends, this movie reminds me of how effectively he undercut SCHINDLER'S LIST and LINCOLN, the latter for which I really enjoyed and admired - up until that unnecessary, and to my mind, damaging ending.
I confess...I don't remember the ending of Lincoln or whether I liked it specifically or not. But I remember the movie far exceeding my expectations; I really loved it. And I like Schindler's List pretty well, though it's far from the most powerful holocaust film I've seen IMO (but it helps that the score is leagues better than SPR IMO). You know what I think is underrated, despite being a bit clunky and manipulative at times? Amistad. For some reason I manage to like/admire/enjoy it despite its flaws. It can get a bit preachy and heavy handed too but it feels so much more genuine than Saving Private Ryan.
Yavar
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Now I’ll have some great liner notes, artwork and a couple of extra minutes to enjoy as well. 
