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I had written to the Brandeis University last Friday, but did at first receive only a standard message from the service desk administrator with the comments "Thank you for contacting us. We will respond to your message soon."
Just now this second reply about THE CONQUEROR came in:
"I am happy to assist you with this request. I will pull the LP and try to gather as much information for you as possible. In regards to the scores available on the Internet Archive--I realize that may seem misleading, as we have the actual musical score, not the records available online.
I will be looking into your request after the holiday break, and respond to you shortly."
So these are certainly not 6 LPs. I suppose the numbering 1-6 means either 6 tracks of an LP/EP or 6 shellac discs (which would mean about 12 tracks).
Maybe it is indeed that EP of THE CONQUEROR which has formerly been mentioned by Joe Caps on this board?
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Posted: |
Nov 21, 2017 - 11:04 AM
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By: |
Last Child
(Member)
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I dont live near Boston, which is why I'm not near Brandeis. There would have to be a guarantee the music is there and retrievable to make a trek.
So these are certainly not 6 LPs. I suppose the numbering 1-6 means either 6 tracks of an LP/EP or 6 shellac discs (which would mean about 12 tracks).
In context on the list, it's hard to know what means what:
9.viii.10 Lee Wiley, " Mother's Child", undated
9.viii.11 "Sylvia", undated
9.viii.12 "I Surrender Dear", undated
10.i.1-6 Victor Young, "The Conqueror", undated
10.i.7 Victor Young, "My Heart's Desire" [MGM #30596], undated
10.i.8 The Gaylords, "Sweet Sue", undated
10.i.10 "Strange Sensation", undated
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Posted: |
Nov 21, 2017 - 12:03 PM
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By: |
manderley
(Member)
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I dont live near Boston, which is why I'm not near Brandeis. There would have to be a guarantee the music is there and retrievable to make a trek.
So these are certainly not 6 LPs. I suppose the numbering 1-6 means either 6 tracks of an LP/EP or 6 shellac discs (which would mean about 12 tracks).
In context on the list, it's hard to know what means what:
9.viii.10 Lee Wiley, " Mother's Child", undated
9.viii.11 "Sylvia", undated
9.viii.12 "I Surrender Dear", undated
10.i.1-6 Victor Young, "The Conqueror", undated
10.i.7 Victor Young, "My Heart's Desire" [MGM #30596], undated
10.i.8 The Gaylords, "Sweet Sue", undated
10.i.10 "Strange Sensation", undated
The Gaylords, "Sweet Sue" is likely a single recording of Victor Young's pop tune.
"My Heart's Desire" is the obscure pop song derived from a theme in Young's score for the 1952 "Scaramouche".
"I Surrender Dear" was a well-known pop tune of the early 30s (not written by Young), but this is possibly a pop recording backed by Victor Young and His Orchestra. During the thirties period Bing Crosby and Victor Young both recorded for Decca, so this might be Crosby's recording of the song and maybe backed by Young.
PS.....It sure would be nice if the people assigned to catalog these rare collections for Universities and Libraries were really knowledgeable in depth about the collections they are cataloging instead of just writing lists of the scant reference material that greets their eyes.
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Posted: |
Nov 21, 2017 - 2:15 PM
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By: |
Last Child
(Member)
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So these are certainly not 6 LPs. I suppose the numbering 1-6 means either 6 tracks of an LP/EP or 6 shellac discs (which would mean about 12 tracks).
In context on the list, it's hard to know what means what:
9.viii.10 Lee Wiley, " Mother's Child", undated
9.viii.11 "Sylvia", undated
9.viii.12 "I Surrender Dear", undated
10.i.1-6 Victor Young, "The Conqueror", undated
10.i.7 Victor Young, "My Heart's Desire" [MGM #30596], undated
10.i.8 The Gaylords, "Sweet Sue", undated
10.i.10 "Strange Sensation", undated
The Gaylords, "Sweet Sue" is likely a single recording of Victor Young's pop tune.
"My Heart's Desire" is the obscure pop song derived from a theme in Young's score for the 1952 "Scaramouche"....
I was responding to Stefan's confusion over the abbreviations and filing system. The sample list was to demonstrate the filing system. Wasnt questioning the content which is mostly self-explanatory or can be googled.
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Any update on THE CONQUEROR music by Victor Young?
To me it's a little unclear just how many discs from THE CONQUEROR exist, if any.
Today I have now received two answers from the Brandeis University regarding the CONQUEROR discs they have. These are 6 78rpm shellac discs (with no label on the discs themselves) which probably contain 10 music tracks from the film score (and not from a ballet with the same title of which they also have the score manuscript).
The first two of the discs apparently contain only side A, whereas the other four records have at least two tracks (one on side A and one on side B). This would mean that probably about 20-30 minutes of the original recording exist on these shellac discs.
Unfortunately and just as I had thought it at first, those records can only be listened to on the spot at the Brandeis University, but otherwise you can´t get any digitized copy from them for copyright reasons.
Would any of our US specialty labels be interested to use these 6 shellac discs for an official release of Young´s CONQUEROR score just in the way Copland´s THE HEIRESS was released from acetates earlier this year? Would this be possible?
These are the two answers I have received:
"I have checked on the record, and it is an 78. Unfortunately, we are unable to make a copy for you due to copyright reasons--although, you are able to listen to the records (there are 6 of them!) if you are able to come in for a visit. None of the records have formal labels on them, though.
While many of the scores to the films have been digitized and are available online, this particular score was not digitized due to the way in which it was bound--it is very tight, and cuts in a little to the score. That being noted, if there is a particular part of the score in which you are interested (perhaps you read music?), I would be happy to arrange a scan of it for you."
"We have the scores for both the film and the Ballet, but the records are for the film. I believe that the first 2 records are only the A side, while the other records have tracks on both sides."
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Posted: |
Dec 12, 2017 - 11:17 AM
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By: |
Last Child
(Member)
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"I have checked on the record, and it is an 78. Unfortunately, we are unable to make a copy for you due to copyright reasons--although, you are able to listen to the records (there are 6 of them!) if you are able to come in for a visit. None of the records have formal labels on them, though.
While many of the scores to the films have been digitized and are available online, this particular score was not digitized due to the way in which it was bound--it is very tight, and cuts in a little to the score. That being noted, if there is a particular part of the score in which you are interested (perhaps you read music?), I would be happy to arrange a scan of it for you."
"We have the scores for both the film and the Ballet, but the records are for the film. I believe that the first 2 records are only the A side, while the other records have tracks on both sides."
Too bad they wont digitize the 78s and the written score before they self-destruct. But that's copyright-shy libraries for ya.
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Posted: |
Dec 12, 2017 - 10:02 PM
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By: |
PFK
(Member)
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Any update on THE CONQUEROR music by Victor Young?
To me it's a little unclear just how many discs from THE CONQUEROR exist, if any.
Today I have now received two answers from the Brandeis University regarding the CONQUEROR discs they have. These are 6 78rpm shellac discs (with no label on the discs themselves) which probably contain 10 music tracks from the film score (and not from a ballet with the same title of which they also have the score manuscript).
The first two of the discs apparently contain only side A, whereas the other four records have at least two tracks (one on side A and one on side B). This would mean that probably about 20-30 minutes of the original recording exist on these shellac discs.
Unfortunately and just as I had thought it at first, those records can only be listened to on the spot at the Brandeis University, but otherwise you can´t get any digitized copy from them for copyright reasons.
Would any of our US specialty labels be interested to use these 6 shellac discs for an official release of Young´s CONQUEROR score just in the way Copland´s THE HEIRESS was released from acetates earlier this year? Would this be possible?
These are the two answers I have received:
"I have checked on the record, and it is an 78. Unfortunately, we are unable to make a copy for you due to copyright reasons--although, you are able to listen to the records (there are 6 of them!) if you are able to come in for a visit. None of the records have formal labels on them, though.
While many of the scores to the films have been digitized and are available online, this particular score was not digitized due to the way in which it was bound--it is very tight, and cuts in a little to the score. That being noted, if there is a particular part of the score in which you are interested (perhaps you read music?), I would be happy to arrange a scan of it for you."
"We have the scores for both the film and the Ballet, but the records are for the film. I believe that the first 2 records are only the A side, while the other records have tracks on both sides."
Thanks for the update Stefan. It's still a bit confusing just what Victor Young film scores are at Brandeis.
Also, we don't know if the 6 discs are music only, music & effects, dialog, multiple takes on one theme etc. How many minutes, etc.
If someone lives near Boston they can listen to the 6 discs and let us know.
If there is a lot of music from THE CONQUEROR, maybe Intrada etc. could issue a CD?
I lived near Boston for 41 years, now I live over a thousand miles away! Oh well .....
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Thanks for the update Stefan. It's still a bit confusing just what Victor Young film scores are at Brandeis.
Also, we don't know if the 6 discs are music only, music & effects, dialog, multiple takes on one theme etc. How many minutes, etc..
I have just asked the really nice archivist there if it is indeed music only on these 6 discs and will let you know as soon as she replies.
I suppose that most of the records listed in that Victor Young collection of the Brandeis Unviersity are 78rpm discs (and not regular LPs) so that they will contain only one or two tracks each. Therefore certainly not many complete Young scores are available and that in the case of THE CONQUEROR even 6 discs do exist is rather an exception.
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Posted: |
Dec 13, 2017 - 5:12 PM
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By: |
PFK
(Member)
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Thanks for the update Stefan. It's still a bit confusing just what Victor Young film scores are at Brandeis.
Also, we don't know if the 6 discs are music only, music & effects, dialog, multiple takes on one theme etc. How many minutes, etc..
I have just asked the really nice archivist there if it is indeed music only on these 6 discs and will let you know as soon as she replies.
I suppose that most of the records listed in that Victor Young collection of the Brandeis Unviersity are 78rpm discs (and not regular LPs) so that they will contain only one or two tracks each. Therefore certainly not many complete Young scores are available and that in the case of THE CONQUEROR even 6 discs do exist is rather an exception.
Please keep us posted Stefan.
I suspect most of the Victor Young records at Brandeis are pop songs by others, classical music etc. that Young conducted.
It's odd there is no Victor Young discs like Steiner had, Tiomkin, Newman etc.
Brandeis donated part of the Young collection to the Boston Public Library. Has anyone been able to check there on the internet etc.?
BYU has a huge amount of Young discs from his Republic years. Can't any of these film scores be put on CDs?
Back in June 1973 I visited Al Bender of the Max Steiner Society at his home in Los Angeles. At the time Al was making reel to reel tapes of the Steiner discs for members of the Society. The discs were 10", 12", 16" etc. Speeds at 33, 45, 78 etc. Some discs had one track maybe 3 minutes, some had a lot of music maybe 15 minutes etc. Al played me a disc of DIVE BOMBER. It had 3 tracks, all the main title, just 3 takes. Al said: "Max usually picked the second take to use in the film." As you can see, all sorts of different disc speed, size, timings, contents etc. A few of the discs even had music and dialog!
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It seems that the Boston Public Library has only parts of score manuscripts in their Victor Young collection, but no records:
http://www.bpl.org/research/music/spmsic.htm#victor_music
So all of the records Young himself had are probably at Brandeis University and can be seen in their list. Ray Faiola once remarked that Max Steiner - in comparison with other US film composers of his time - was rather unique in accumulating so many acetate discs of his scores. Even Tiomkin apparently only had acetate discs of some of his scores - almost all of which have already been released on BYU CDs during the last 10 years -, but not a really huge collection. And did Neman have many acetates at all? As far as I know, what has been released by Newman from the 40s/50s on CD all came from the Fox studio vaults.
Many 78rpm discs in the Victor Young collection which were released on Decca and for which only a number is given can be found via these numbers here:
http://www.78discography.com/
So quite a lot of the discs must be 78rpm discs with one or two tracks, often only songs or instrumental pieces conducted by Young, sometime a song he wrote himself. And most of these discs seem to be from the 30s and 40s.
I don´t see so many acetates from film scores. Of course, the two discs each for MAKE WAY FOR TOMORROW and MAID FOR SALEM from 1937 could certainly be such acetates, but the question is how much music they will contain. One disc for example (10.vii.8) contains only one single track: the "Sinbad" theme from SON OF SINBAD from 1955. So all in all, it´s difficult to say how much music is on each of these discs or acetates.
However, for no other score I see so many discs as for THE CONQUEROR. Therefore I think that quite a lot of music from that score should have been preserved.
I have already received a reply from the Brandeis archivist and she will definitively look into this matter and tell me as soon as possible if it is indeed music only on these 6 discs. I suppose it may take 1-2 days till I get the detailed answer.
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Posted: |
Dec 20, 2017 - 11:05 AM
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By: |
PFK
(Member)
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It seems that the Boston Public Library has only parts of score manuscripts in their Victor Young collection, but no records:
http://www.bpl.org/research/music/spmsic.htm#victor_music
So all of the records Young himself had are probably at Brandeis University and can be seen in their list. Ray Faiola once remarked that Max Steiner - in comparison with other US film composers of his time - was rather unique in accumulating so many acetate discs of his scores. Even Tiomkin apparently only had acetate discs of some of his scores - almost all of which have already been released on BYU CDs during the last 10 years -, but not a really huge collection. And did Neman have many acetates at all? As far as I know, what has been released by Newman from the 40s/50s on CD all came from the Fox studio vaults.
Many 78rpm discs in the Victor Young collection which were released on Decca and for which only a number is given can be found via these numbers here:
http://www.78discography.com/
So quite a lot of the discs must be 78rpm discs with one or two tracks, often only songs or instrumental pieces conducted by Young, sometime a song he wrote himself. And most of these discs seem to be from the 30s and 40s.
I don´t see so many acetates from film scores. Of course, the two discs each for MAKE WAY FOR TOMORROW and MAID FOR SALEM from 1937 could certainly be such acetates, but the question is how much music they will contain. One disc for example (10.vii.8) contains only one single track: the "Sinbad" theme from SON OF SINBAD from 1955. So all in all, it´s difficult to say how much music is on each of these discs or acetates.
However, for no other score I see so many discs as for THE CONQUEROR. Therefore I think that quite a lot of music from that score should have been preserved.
I have already received a reply from the Brandeis archivist and she will definitively look into this matter and tell me as soon as possible if it is indeed music only on these 6 discs. I suppose it may take 1-2 days till I get the detailed answer.
Stefan, have you heard anything further from the Brandeis archivist?
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Stefan, have you heard anything further from the Brandeis archivist?
Unfortunately not. I am also wondering why the archivist has still not replied - not even today. I will write her again tomorrow if I get no e-mail till then.
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- the "older sister" of the Susan Hayward love theme, the theme from the third sentence of the First Symphony by Mily Blakirev