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Posted: |
Sep 13, 2007 - 9:52 AM
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By: |
JamesFitz
(Member)
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One of the main reasons for taken the decision to re-record the complete EL CID is because of my own disappointed with the Sedares recording.
It was of course was marketed as the "complete score" when in fact is less than 50% of the total. For me while the Sedares is good and well played, far too often the clearly marked tempi on scores are totally ignored, as with the Main Titles being painfully ponderous, and the taking "Fight for Calahorra" at near half speed! Also I am very anal about using the correct percussion, for example Sedares has snare drums throughout Fight for Calahorra...whereas it is very clearly marked in sketches as two field drums at the top, with one military snare drum added at bar 48. (Field drums giving it a more "medieval", snares-off, tabor-like sound)
Also, for me, the Sedares recording sounds too much of the concert hall variety and has absolutely no top end and peak extension, creating a softer very muffled low to mid sound with quite rich brass that unfortunately don't have any edge . Maybe I'm wrong in this and at my advanced age the old hearing begins to go, but I like my film scores to sound like film scores with tons of detail that often is smoothed over when using more minimal miking in a concert hall rather than a sound studio....
I can only hope than when the new recording is finally finished people will appreciate both approaches to recording this score...as after all the more recordings of this masterwork the better! But if you like the "Concert hall sound" then you certainly won't like the new EL CID!
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As long as the brief use of organ in the finale sounds ok- then I'll be happy 
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The Sedares version expands on that a bit, but has good sound and better performance.
???
To elaborate: The Sedares version expands slightly too much on the "perfect" Sony program, which is a bit unfortunate (but still better than the upcoming Tadlow recording, which goes overboard in this particular department). I also think the Sedares version improves on Rozsa's own version. Rozsa's seems a little rushed and the orchestra actually has a few screw-ups. It's not bad, but not especially good either. Additionally, the Sedares version adds a "concertey" ambiance that suits the music (yet does not fall in the RSNO trap, where several instruments were far too distant). And obviously - being a newer recording - the sound quality is much better.
So...except for being far too C&C for my tastes, it will be interesting to see how the new Tadlow recording will fit into all of this.
Well, as regards the 'perfect' original album compilation, I don't think so. Someone, possibly Bill Wrobel on consulting the library scoresheets, once found that the 'Courage and Honour' cue on the Koch was in fact a Rozsa compilation to be included in the album suite, but I suppose there was no room for it. So his OWN 'perfect' selection would be somewhat different.
The fact is that this score is so VARIED and wide and massive that there are many one-off passages, little vignettes, that just need recording, even though they'd detract from what you regard as an edited distillation. I think every note of this needs doing, which is why this is so welcome. There are fireworks missing so far too, like Ben Yussuf's very rhythmic ride to Valencia, and the whole capture of Valencia sequence.
I think, as is often the case with Rozsa, that he castrated some of his best passages when he edited later. He should have left the 'Overture to a Symphony Concert' alone for example, and the wonderful dance macabre in the 'Pursuit' from the Mark Hellinger suite. Now in 'Battle of Valencia' there's a WICKED little bit as the two armies clash, major/minor brass chord bites with percussion, it's totally Arabic and totally Spanish and a great almost evil tune. The music builds UP to these bars and then develops them afterwards, but they've been omotted from previous releases, despite being a climax. The 'busiest' part of the Munchen release of that battle is also cut from the Sedares. This may be 'Mickey Mouse' in character but it's GOOD Mickey Mouse, and no worse then the Prokofiev icebreaker stuff. In the old Polydor/RCA/Palmer era, Rozsa pointed up his chords and made things more biting, but earlier, he often sanitized and sweetened his album versions, which is a shame.
There's no part of this score that isn't good, and any lack of flow is to do with the film itself, but it's all GOOD.
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I`m really happy about this news.
I never liked the Sedares versions exactly because of the reasons Mr. Fitzpatrick mentioned.
This year THE SEA HAWK, next year EL CID, just wonderful.
If now someone could do Steiner`s THE ADVENTURES OF DON JUAN.
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Wonderful news!
As the tracks are reportedly unavailable, this is certainly one of the major HolyGrail scores due a re-recording!
Can't wait!
As for anyone complaining about the price, phooey on you!
(Hell, I bet any one of us has paid more at one time or another for recordings of, shall we say, questionable provenance.)
Mr. Fitzpatrick, kudos to you! PRIVATE LIFE OF SHERLOCK HOLMES is wonderful, and I'm sure your EL CID will be too!
BTW, can you tell us if there will be any additional or extended cues on the recording, which may have been planned, or deleted, from the original score? I'm always interested in this. HOLMES was just great, the way you included so much more.
Thanks so much!
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Posted: |
Sep 13, 2007 - 1:44 PM
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By: |
Thor
(Member)
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One of the main reasons for taken the decision to re-record the complete EL CID is because of my own disappointed with the Sedares recording.
It was of course was marketed as the "complete score" when in fact is less than 50% of the total. For me while the Sedares is good and well played, far too often the clearly marked tempi on scores are totally ignored, as with the Main Titles being painfully ponderous, and the taking "Fight for Calahorra" at near half speed! Also I am very anal about using the correct percussion, for example Sedares has snare drums throughout Fight for Calahorra...whereas it is very clearly marked in sketches as two field drums at the top, with one military snare drum added at bar 48. (Field drums giving it a more "medieval", snares-off, tabor-like sound)
Also, for me, the Sedares recording sounds too much of the concert hall variety and has absolutely no top end and peak extension, creating a softer very muffled low to mid sound with quite rich brass that unfortunately don't have any edge . Maybe I'm wrong in this and at my advanced age the old hearing begins to go, but I like my film scores to sound like film scores with tons of detail that often is smoothed over when using more minimal miking in a concert hall rather than a sound studio....
I can only hope than when the new recording is finally finished people will appreciate both approaches to recording this score...as after all the more recordings of this masterwork the better! But if you like the "Concert hall sound" then you certainly won't like the new EL CID!
Interestingly, the very points you point out as unsatisfying are the ones I consider an ASSETT to the Sedares version. Of course, I'll wait untill your release is out to make a final evalutation, but from what I've learned in this thread about your take on this, I must admit that the Sedares version is probably more up my alley after all.
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But if you like the "Concert hall sound" then you certainly won't like the new EL CID!
Sounds great!!
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The Sedares El Cid project was pre-publicised as a complete recording. And I remember release was delayed by several months. Perhaps they realised they had a turkey on their hands and rescued as much as they could to fill a single disc, but still had to include vital cues like the finale, despite the poor quality..
I don't think so. The compositions were all previous edits by people like Palmer, and 'Courage and Honour' was an old unused album original too. They tended to go for material that was slower, less note-dense: all the Chimene scenes are virtually there, but the 'write-your-ass-off' action stuff is conspicuously missing, except where it'd been done for the first album. As pointed out, 'Battle of Valencia' was chopped at the busiest part!
El Cid had an LP release that featured one of the all-time ugly covers – I think it was a Polydor/MGM release – a gatefold in an ugly brown color, with terrible typography and a feeble, poorly retouched pic of Heston holding up his sword with both hands. Horrible. And the Chapter III CD cover wasn't much better.
That was the 'Silver Screen Soundtrack Series' using silvered positives from twoscale negatives. 'King of Kings' was PINK for Pete's sake. All psychadelic. Good pressings though.
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Koch Classics (which includes their film scores) has pretty much vanished, hasn't it? They seem to be focusing on jazz these days.
Yeah, they seem to be vanishing into obscurity. I love their recording of Jerome Moross' Symphony No. 1 and his "Last Judgment" ballet. I bought a cutout of that at Berkshire Record Outlet a few years ago and it has since become one of my favorite discs.
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