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If M*A*S*H was boring to you, what exactly do you find to be good drama or comedy?
I was a little harsh saying a bore. It's just that M*A*S*H is like tap water when you turn on a local channel or TVLAND. They play it back to back on these venues. I watched it in it's original run- had a dorm mate in college who thought it was the tit. It's just not my cup of tea.
I could never get into M*A*S*H*. Don't think I've ever sat through an entire episode, and never understood it's widespread appeal.
F-Troop, on the other hand, was more my speed.
Now, see, as pure funny, silly juvenile comedy, I liked F-Troop too. It was what it was, and sometimes, it was quite funny.
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This was, namely, the pilot episode called "Two on A Raft". And from what I've read, Williams scored this pilot (and only the pilot), whose score was then chopped up and used here and there throughout the series. However, from the end credits, it was apparently scored by someone named Frank Comstock, who I've never heard of.
Thor, love the thread 'cause I'm mad about all things Gilligan... or just plain mad.
Not sure if you get/got re-runs in Norway of "Adam-12" or "Dragnet" but Frank Comstock scored a lot of the former and a few of the latter as well as GI.
I'd give my right peanut to have CDs of some of those scores, including Gerald Fried's wonderful Gilligan's Island scores. Heck, even re-recordings would work if the original tapes were indeed lost or destroyed.
FSM did a sweet article a while back on Gerald Fried's GI music (anyone remember the issue #?) which is a good little read. Fried is one of those guys you get the impression would have just been a sweet, nice old man to sit and talk with. And while his GI music seems simplistic, he knew exactly what he was doing. Anyway, check out that article; it's worth it!
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Yeah, sorry about that "cult" thing. I guess the whole campiness of the show made me assume that it had more of a kitch appeal than a wide appeal
Also keep in mind that most TV shows, both dramatic and comedic, of the 1960's are considered camp by today's audiences. And yes Gilligan was always considered a broad, silly comedy - but DAMN was it popular! Even such outstanding shows like The Outer Limits can be seem as campy now, due to the outdated styles of acting, filmmaking, scoring, etc.
Personally, I don't subscribe to that view. Something that was meant to be camp is camp. Something that "becomes camp" because styles have changed is simply outdated. What was good does not become bad because of time.
Batman, Lost in Space, Man from UNCLE, shows like this were meant to be (or had become during their run) camp. I guess I mean anything meant to be tongue in cheek.
A show could be overdramatic and not "camp", just overdrmatic. That's what TV was then. It wasn't realistic, it was theatrical, no matter what the genre.
Sorry I got off track, you didn't say anything in your post which demonstrated that view, but it came to mind as I was writing.
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Posted: |
Apr 23, 2009 - 9:29 AM
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By: |
Jim Phelps
(Member)
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Also keep in mind that most TV shows, both dramatic and comedic, of the 1960's are considered camp by today's audiences. And yes Gilligan was always considered a broad, silly comedy - but DAMN was it popular! Even such outstanding shows like The Outer Limits can be seem as campy now, due to the outdated styles of acting, filmmaking, scoring, etc.
Personally, I don't subscribe to that view. Something that was meant to be camp is camp. Something that "becomes camp" because styles have changed is simply outdated. What was good does not become bad because of time.
Batman, Lost in Space, Man from UNCLE, shows like this were meant to be (or had become during their run) camp. I guess I mean anything meant to be tongue in cheek.
A show could be overdramatic and not "camp", just overdrmatic. That's what TV was then. It wasn't realistic, it was theatrical, no matter what the genre.
---------------------------------
I read somewhere that "Camp" was hokey and goofy by design (1960s Batman, for example) and "Kitsch" was unintentional silliness, all done with a straight face (Dragnet).
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Well, I don't know about this calling GI a sitcom. In most sitcoms characters are not faced with life and death propositions (from active volcanoes, headhunters, landed WW2 mines, malnutrition through loss of citruis fruits, typhoons, consumption of radioactive vegetables). Isn't that more in the realm of adventure? I would call it a 70/30 com-a (flipside of a dramedy).
I think one difference that makes Gilligan's Island most certainly a comedy is the general tone of the show. Granted there were some life and death situations, but these situations were all played for laughs. For example, if Gilligan was wandering through the jungle and came upon a WW2 mine, the comedy comes from how Gilligan reacts to the situation and comedically runs away. Granted things got a bit more serious when a straight man character like the Professor looked at the situation, but regardless of the danger, you could tell the scenes were told with a tongue in cheek feel. Compare this to a scene in Lost where a character runs into a polar bear, and the reaction of the character, the music, and overall tone is vastly different from GI, even if the scene in Lost is arguably more preposterous. And the difference is that with Lost, we are meant to think the character is in real danger, and with GI, I don't believe we are ever meant to think any character is in any real danger.
Also, from my memories of watching the show, it always seemed as if the GI island was actually a pretty nice place to live. Between the Professor's endless ability to make devices out of coconuts and vines that provide any convenience you can imagine and Mary Ann's cooking, the island was actually a pretty nice place to be.
I think the general lighthearted tone of the show, and the way most dangers were ultimately played for laughs most certainly make GI a comedy.
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I Dream of Jeannie also had life and death situations and, if you took out the "comedy", many episodes would have worked as adventure dramas.
But they weren't, it was a sitcom. So was Gilligan's Island. It was a comedy with the humor based on particular situations. Hence the name.
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Posted: |
Apr 26, 2009 - 11:34 AM
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By: |
Thor
(Member)
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OK, I was finally able to track down the unaired pilot through contacts of mine.
Firstly, there is no credits for the crazy calypso theme, so I assume it is a Williams composition after all, and not something the show's creator wrote?
Second, this must surely be the most wacky and mickey-mousey thing Williams has ever done, next to his Tammy Grimes Show theme, at least. Basically lots of short bursts of "musical sound effects" as Gilligan tries to catch a big fish, the shipper gets coconuts in his head etc. In general, the episode seems to have more music than the "Raft" pilot, for example the music when they wake up in the boat in the beginning. Some snippets of semi-exotic instrumentation to set the locale in intros and outros etc. Definitely not anything spectacular, and I don't think it would hold up very well on CD, but very interesting to hear.
As for the show itself (after now having seen two episodes), I have to say that it's not my thing; not my kind of humour. I guess it's because I have no nostalgic connection to it, I'm too young and I'm too...well, Norwegian. But I might just watch an episode or two more (with or without Williams' music), just to get a feel for it.
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Posted: |
Aug 17, 2009 - 3:19 PM
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By: |
Thor
(Member)
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So...a few months later and I've worked my way through the entire first season. I think I'll stop there, even though there are two more. You get to like the characters and all, but it's really too distant for me - in terms of comedy, style, acting and so forth. I don't want to spend more time with a thing that has merely academic interest. Also, there isn't much more Williams in the following seasons, if any at all, so there's really no point. I got to know what it's all about.
Interesting how they have these "guests" appearing once in a while, but we rarely move outside the island. The only exceptions were the neighbouring islands with the tribes and the military staff that's going to test a rocket in an episode. That's about it.
I certainly came to recognize Williams' "snippets" as I kept watching, themes that were applied in given scenarios, for example the sexy jazz music for Ginger's advances. However, I'm pretty confident that these snippets were not only pieces from the unused pilot. He must have composed MORE music as well. There was nothing in the pilot episode that warranted certain musical snippets credited to Williams.
Also, the credits were sometimes confusing. Williams is credited at the end when his "library music" is being used. However, at some point his music appears uncredited (or Gerald Fried or somebody gets it at the end, even though a piece of music was used that was previously credited to Williams).
If memory serves, there is this one jaunty Williams piece that is very reminiscent of the ewok music from RETURN OF THE JEDI. Cool to discover these things.
A soundtrack CD would have very short snippets, so I'm not sure how well it would hold up as a listening experience, but it would at the very least be interesting from a purely HISTORICAL viewpoint.
Am I right that the only living cast members today are Mary-Jane, Ginger and the Professor?
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I doubt anyone here has even heard OF GILLIGAN'S ISLAND!
