I hope people continue to post in this thread so every time I see that there is a new post, I get excited only to find out that there is still no news.
I thought the whole moratorium/freeze thing was unfounded rumor, and disproved by the release of FSM's title(s) during the release of the first Abrams film?
I thought the whole moratorium/freeze thing was unfounded rumor, and disproved by the release of FSM's title(s) during the release of the first Abrams film?
I believe it was released AFTER the film premiered. And there is still time before this freeze kicks in.
Well...it looks like the moratorium date may have been pushed back. MV originally said that they might just squeeze in DS9 in early January before the moratorium, then it wasn't among the first January batch, and now apparently it's coming out Feb. 12th, which is almost a whole month away. Assuming GNP has at least until then it's looking a lot more likely again that they'll be able to have this out in time...
You will need some kind of healing process after watching the film!
I'd say its not only the best of the TNG movies but one of the better ST movies too. But thats a discussion for another time...
Now is the time! LOL! Here's a fun clip that I found on youtube. It's a Star Trek movie marathon filming the audience via time lapse photography. They also rate all the movies. You'll never guess which film comes in last...
I will never fathom the deep hatred for STV or the deep love of First Contact. I mean, yeah, STV has a lot of annoying things in it, especially for the supporting characters. But the bond shown between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy is the strongest shown in any of the films, DeForest Kelly actually gets a powerfully acted scene, AND the film is actually about "boldly going"! (How many Trek films can actually say that?) I think with some good editing to get rid of the dumb bits STV would actually be one of the BEST Trek films.
On the other hand, no amount of editing could fix the huge plot holes and characterization of pretty much the entire cast of TNG as featured in one of the most overrated films ever, First Contact. It was like everyone was sooo grateful that it had a decent budget and great effects and such (basically didn't look like TV as the previous installment did...though they made a lot of efforts to look more filmic than the show if you just pay attention a little bit), so...they just overlooked that the plot was dumb, the Borg were ruined (later made worse by Voyager), and the characters acted completely differently from how they used to (and it kept getting worse with the follow-ups).
It's just like how I can't fathom people saying that Star Wars Episode III is good. Sure, it is stronger in many areas than the other prequel films, but that doesn't mean it isn't horrible for many many more good reasons...
I also don't get people who trash the latest Trek film for having too much action and not enough "Trek" ideas, mis-characterization (at least it can be explained a little as being an alternate universe...though McCoy is *dead on*), and a dumb plot which doesn't make sense when you examine it. And then they say that First Contact is one of the best Trek films. Whaaa? All of the same stuff applies. At least the latest Trek has 10 times the fun (and HEY even more $$$ up there on the screen!) as can be found in First Contact (a few bits with James Cromwell notwithstanding). In fact I probably enjoy the terribly mediocre Insurrection more than First Contact, and it was rated the lowest on that video whereas FC *tied with Wrath of Khan*???
Oh well, at least we got some good scores out of those crappy TNG films!
I agree, Yavar. The TNG films, as good as they look, do have our beloved characters acting differently. From First Contact and onward the characters are slightly "off" in terms of their motivations and behavior. Just some examples:
1.Troi and Dr. Crusher running around with phaser blasters?
2. During a scene in Nemesis when Shinzon unsheathes his dagger, Data moves forward in defense, but Mr. Worf just stands there?? WHAT!!? He is the security officer and he should be more aggressive. Worf would never takes shit!
3. Picard driving around in a 20th Century style ATV? The alien race on the planet with ATV's too?? Just asinine.
4. During Data's wake, they should have given more lines to Georgie, after all they were best friends.
5. Troi getting drunk? Yes it was funny, but inappropriate to the character.
7. In Generations, Data acting like first season Data. I know they did this for the non Trek audience's but it's a step back for the character.
8. The Enterprise E. It's a cool ship, but it's not like the TNG era ship. Star Trek is supposed to be about exploration, not war! No families on the Enterprise-E. Sad.
9. Gratuitous violence. This was not integral to the TNG I remember.
I will never fathom the deep hatred for STV or the deep love of First Contact. I mean, yeah, STV has a lot of annoying things in it, especially for the supporting characters. But the bond shown between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy is the strongest shown in any of the films, DeForest Kelly actually gets a powerfully acted scene, AND the film is actually about "boldly going"! (How many Trek films can actually say that?) I think with some good editing to get rid of the dumb bits STV would actually be one of the BEST Trek films.
On the other hand, no amount of editing could fix the huge plot holes and characterization of pretty much the entire cast of TNG as featured in one of the most overrated films ever, First Contact. It was like everyone was sooo grateful that it had a decent budget and great effects and such (basically didn't look like TV as the previous installment did...though they made a lot of efforts to look more filmic than the show if you just pay attention a little bit), so...they just overlooked that the plot was dumb, the Borg were ruined (later made worse by Voyager), and the characters acted completely differently from how they used to (and it kept getting worse with the follow-ups).
It's just like how I can't fathom people saying that Star Wars Episode III is good. Sure, it is stronger in many areas than the other prequel films, but that doesn't mean it isn't horrible for many many more good reasons...
I also don't get people who trash the latest Trek film for having too much action and not enough "Trek" ideas, mis-characterization (at least it can be explained a little as being an alternate universe...though McCoy is *dead on*), and a dumb plot which doesn't make sense when you examine it. And then they say that First Contact is one of the best Trek films. Whaaa? All of the same stuff applies. At least the latest Trek has 10 times the fun (and HEY even more $$$ up there on the screen!) as can be found in First Contact (a few bits with James Cromwell notwithstanding). In fact I probably enjoy the terribly mediocre Insurrection more than First Contact, and it was rated the lowest on that video whereas FC *tied with Wrath of Khan*???
Oh well, at least we got some good scores out of those crappy TNG films!
Yavar
This is obviously an old argument and one based entirely on subjective opinions, but I certainly agree with you about TREK V. As for the TNG films, I enjoy each of them but for different reasons and to varying degrees. However, I can't agree that NEMESIS is somehow more fun than FIRST CONTACT. For better or worse, NEMESIS is a pretty dour film and all about endings, whereas FIRST CONTACT has a much more optimistic spirit behind it all.
As for STAR WARS EPISODE III, it's my favorite of the latest trilogy and pretty much my 2nd favorite STAR WARS film overall, so there's that... but hey, a difference of opinion is what makes a horse race!
This is obviously an old argument and one based entirely on subjective opinions, but I certainly agree with you about TREK V. As for the TNG films, I enjoy each of them but for different reasons and to varying degrees. However, I can't agree that NEMESIS is somehow more fun than FIRST CONTACT. For better or worse, NEMESIS is a pretty dour film and all about endings, whereas FIRST CONTACT has a much more optimistic spirit behind it all.
The actual "first contact" stuff in the movie was the best part, certainly. But it was a relatively small section of the film when you come right down to it. Also, I never said Nemesis was more fun than First Contact. I *hate* Nemesis. All of the TNG film problems are at their WORST in it and everything just feels wrong and tired. It's probably the only TNG film (or Star Trek film in general) that I like pretty much NONE of besides the score by Goldsmith. I hate it as much as the Star Wars prequels!
As for STAR WARS EPISODE III, it's my favorite of the latest trilogy and pretty much my 2nd favorite STAR WARS film overall, so there's that... but hey, a difference of opinion is what makes a horse race!
Nonsensical plot and script, lame (non-)characters with (non-)relationships and nonsensical motivations, but hey it's got TONS of action including a lightsaber battle that goes on for half an hour too long...but I guess that does it for some people.
I agree, Yavar. The TNG films, as good as they look, do have our beloved characters acting differently. From First Contact and onward the characters are slightly "off" in terms of their motivations and behavior. Just some examples:
1.Troi and Dr. Crusher running around with phaser blasters?
2. During a scene in Nemesis when Shinzon unsheathes his dagger, Data moves forward in defense, but Mr. Worf just stands there?? WHAT!!? He is the security officer and he should be more aggressive. Worf would never takes shit!
3. Picard driving around in a 20th Century style ATV? The alien race on the planet with ATV's too?? Just asinine.
4. During Data's wake, they should have given more lines to Georgie, after all they were best friends.
5. Troi getting drunk? Yes it was funny, but inappropriate to the character.
7. In Generations, Data acting like first season Data. I know they did this for the non Trek audience's but it's a step back for the character.
8. The Enterprise E. It's a cool ship, but it's not like the TNG era ship. Star Trek is supposed to be about exploration, not war! No families on the Enterprise-E. Sad.
9. Gratuitous violence. This was not integral to the TNG I remember.
-Rick O
I pretty much agree with everything you've said above, Rick O. I can sorta accept the violence and darker tone of First Contact given that it was the Borg they were dealing with (and Picard's Ahab-like behaviour made sense here), but not in the other movies.
Most of the big screen trek movies ended up being more action oriented than the TV series episodes. Given that this was what the studio apparently wanted, the TNG cast was a poor choice for a new film series as it was always going to feel more unnatural with this cast doing action movies than with the TOS crew. A better choice would have been the DS9 crew or, better yet, an entire new movie-specific crew.
Still, even accepting that the movies were going to be more action oriented, the plots were still pretty banal (First Contact notwithstanding). One of my favorite TOS movies is The Undiscovered Country which manages to be literate and allegorical while still maintaining the flashy effects and action elements of the movies. No such depth to any of the TNG movies which I tend to chalk up to Berman and all the other show runners losing touch with what made trek work at about this time during the tenure. Witness the dumbing down and sexing up of the franchise with Voyage and Enterprise at around the same time....
At first I liked the new look and feel of the TNG movies. I was happy to see the crew evolving, just as Kirk's did in TREK II with them getting a little older. I ate up the action and the edgier scenes, but as the years have flown, I find myself respecting the TV show way more. That's where TNG really shined. And they really DID NOT have to kill Data off. It didn't feel right to me. I know why Data did what he did and it was admirable for the character. But it felt so pointless to end the franchise on such a down note. (And B4 getting Data's memories doesn't count.) I love the last episode of the series and how it ended. They should have done something like that instead.
Nonsensical plot and script, lame (non-)characters with (non-)relationships and nonsensical motivations, but hey it's got TONS of action including a lightsaber battle that goes on for half an hour too long...but I guess that does it for some people.
Yavar
I really enjoy EPISODE III for more than its action and battles, from the time I saw it on opening day I have a genuine emotional response to the movie, its characters and story. And no, I'm not some naive kid, but a 40-year old adult who connected to the film for my own personal reasons (losing a parent at the same age as Anakin, marriage with an unhealthy attachment). I find it a good film and despise it when others simply re-post the absolutely inane ramblings of Red Letter Media's "review" of the film as if it's some kind of irrefutable evidence in a court case of why normal fans shouldn't enjoy the prequels. If you don't like it, fine, but do so for your own reasons and it's all subjective.
At first I liked the new look and feel of the TNG movies. I was happy to see the crew evolving, just as Kirk's did in TREK II with them getting a little older. I ate up the action and the edgier scenes, but as the years have flown, I find myself respecting the TV show way more. That's where TNG really shined. And they really DID NOT have to kill Data off. It didn't feel right to me. I know why Data did what he did and it was admirable for the character. But it felt so pointless to end the franchise on such a down note. (And B4 getting Data's memories doesn't count.) I love the last episode of the series and how it ended. They should have done something like that instead.
-Rick O.
Yeah, Star Trek has always worked best on the small screen, usually in episodic format (although on overarching plot spanning one or more seasons can work as well, which both DS9 and Enterprise showed). Being a franchise based primarily on television series is one of its greatest differences from Star Wars, a predominantly film-centric franchise.
That's one reason I don't really care that much what Abrams/the new film franchise really does with respect to "ruining" (as some fans put it) the Prime continuity. Trek films have almost always been more action-focused than their small-screen counterparts, anyway. The films at least have to make a pretense of appealing to a broader audience (even if most of them utterly failed), whereas only dedicated fans are going to sit down and watch an hour-long episode every week.
If/when Star Trek comes back to the airwaves, personally I'd like to see it begin as a miniseries aired over a few weeks, possibly adapting one of the better stories from the relaunched novel series (or at least picking the brain of writers like David Mack if they opt for an original script, since those are some of the best Star Trek stories I've seen/read/whatever in many years). That'd be a bit safer for CBS than investing in a full season of a brand-new show, and would allow them to test the water first before making that full commitment.
It would have to be good, though. Damn good. The Destiny Trilogy would make an amazing miniseries; the one disadvantage being that they'd need most of the TNG cast to reprise their roles one last time for parts of story. On the plus side, it would end up being be a far better final voyage for them than the abysmal Nemesis.
