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 Posted:   Jun 28, 2013 - 5:15 PM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)


I'm talking about making lossless clones of the CDs you buy, and then, to save space, getting rid of the CDs and just having audio files. I am seriously considering this.


So, you're considering piracy?

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 28, 2013 - 7:20 PM   
 By:   Ed Lachmann   (Member)

Even if your main storage hard drive doesn't crash and you've backed everything up a dozen times, do you really feel completely safe with this? Of course, you could burn them onto CD blanks for safety, but then you'd be back right where you started again. How is it practical to substitute what is already about the most perfect storage media one could imagine for thin air? Sometimes I wish they had digitized food instead of art. I'm not crazy about going to the supermarket but I really miss book stores and record/CD/DVD stores. Lossless may be wonderful, but what I'd lose by doing something like gutting my collection, nothing left to look at but some downloaded sheets of paper and a whirring little box actually makes me sick to my stomach.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 29, 2013 - 6:48 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Even if your main storage hard drive doesn't crash and you've backed everything up a dozen times, do you really feel completely safe with this? Of course, you could burn them onto CD blanks for safety, but then you'd be back right where you started again. How is it practical to substitute what is already about the most perfect storage media one could imagine for thin air? Sometimes I wish they had digitized food instead of art. I'm not crazy about going to the supermarket but I really miss book stores and record/CD/DVD stores. Lossless may be wonderful, but what I'd lose by doing something like gutting my collection, nothing left to look at but some downloaded sheets of paper and a whirring little box actually makes me sick to my stomach.

Now we're getting somewhere. This was precisely the kind of response I was looking for. And these are the very issues I've been wrestling with.

I guess, for me, I think could live without the CDs, because my LPs would still give the visual and tactile connection to the music.

Sometimes I wish they had digitized food instead of art. I'm not crazy about going to the supermarket but I really miss book stores and record/CD/DVD stores.

I nominate this for post of the year.

 
 Posted:   Jun 29, 2013 - 11:03 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

It's interesting that so many of you seem to have parted with your LPs so easily, but would never do so with your CDs. I'm having a hard time understanding this.

It's simple. LP's are generally a far inferior product. Yes, the large cover art was nice, and yes I do think LP's sound "warmer". But it was far to easy to scratch or damage, even by the most careful users. One listen and you already have a tick or a pop on an otherwise brand new product.

Sure there are better turntables and better needles, but they were also far more expensive. With a CD, it pretty much sounds the same in any player. (Amps and speakers another story) And they are virtually indestructible even after a hundred spins.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 29, 2013 - 1:59 PM   
 By:   cirithungol   (Member)

There are some strange arguments here. So, CDs are better than digital because if you haven't backed up and you lose your music, it's gone forever? Are CDs indestructible now?

If your house burns down or someone breaks in and steals your CDs etc, you will indeed lose them forever and they'll be a hell of a lot harder to replace than digital copies, which by the way, if you use something like iTunes you can just download again without buying everything a second time.

When lossless music becomes more widespread, digital distribution will have easily surpassed the cumbersome CD collections of old.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 29, 2013 - 2:35 PM   
 By:   Traveling Matt   (Member)

The misconception here is the misconception that always creeps into these discussions. The answer is, and has always been, to store your media (videos, music, photos) on both discs and drives.

Download only deprives you of a hard copy. CD deprives you, initially, of a soft copy. If you rip/burn your CDs and store the music on discs and drives (and keep copies in multiple physical locations), you've done your best.

 
 Posted:   Jun 29, 2013 - 2:38 PM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Who's gonna break into your house and steal your soundtrack collection? Yeah your house can burn to the ground, but that is less likely than a HD crash which ppl experience all the time. CD's are pretty much indestructible. Ive never had one fail, ever.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 29, 2013 - 3:39 PM   
 By:   follow me   (Member)

Well, I can certainly remember when it was "LPs forever, CDs never".

And now it's "CDs forever, digital never".


What does this mean? CDs ARE digital! The only difference is where you actually store your files: CD, harddisk, USB-stick etc. Harddisks can crash, CDs can rot. A downloaded file only means that the producer leaves the process of storing the file to you. I will always prefer CDs, because it is no problem to get the content of the CD onto a harddisk but is impossible for the normal user to get a file stored on a harddisk onto a professional pressed CD. Plus: often you get a nice printed booklet when buying a CD.

 
 Posted:   Jun 29, 2013 - 3:46 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

...nothing left to look at but some downloaded sheets of paper and a whirring little box actually makes me sick to my stomach.



I love the look of LPs on a shelf. Something organic about it. But I get as much pleasure looking at cheap plastic jewel cases on a shelf as I would get from looking at a few hundred plastic Tic-Tac mints containers lined up around my room.
If I wanted some cheap plastic to display, I'd get my old Pez dispenser collection out of its storage box.

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2013 - 9:01 AM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

I love the look of LPs on a shelf. Something organic about it. But I get as much pleasure looking at cheap plastic jewel cases on a shelf as I would get from looking at a few hundred plastic Tic-Tac mints containers lined up around my room.
If I wanted some cheap plastic to display, I'd get my old Pez dispenser collection out of its storage box.


Funny, I really enjoy looking through my soundtrack CDs in their "cheap plastic" cases. I've considered replacing the cheap plastic jewel cases with more expensive ones, just so they wouldn't look so cheap, but then I guess there really wouldn't be much of a point, would there? So I guess basically I don't know what the fuck you're talking about, except that you would rather look at the spines of old cardboard record sleeves than new plastic CD cases. I'm sure that must have some meaning for you, which has thus far surpassed your ability to express meaningfully to the rest of us.

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2013 - 9:52 AM   
 By:   Dyfrynt   (Member)

Follow said "CDs ARE digital! The only difference is where you actually store your files"

Actually that is the crux of the issue for me. I prefer the physical product over the downloaded one, but at the moment the difference is not critical to me, Because both are stored on my own device. Whether it be the CD or the downloaded album on my personal device (whether that be a puter or a portable device, be it music player, pad, etc.

Here is where the shit hits the fan for me. Companies are falling all over each other to move people from a physical product, CD, to a completely digital computer file, MP3 or any of its variants.

AND these same companies are falling all over each other trying to get people to let them store all your files for you. In the wispy, cuddly, cloud. Which is a extremely clever Trojan Horse way of NOT saying they will store what you supposedly own on their servers.

Once we get to this point, you will not actually own a single thing you purchased. It is not on a disc in your house. It is not a file on your device. It is on a corporation's servers.

The implications of this scenario should be obvious to anyone with a brain larger than a pea. Tempest in a teapot? I don’t think so.

The future is already here. There has already been a case where the court ruled who owns “your” music. An older man wanted to leave his massive downloaded collection of music to his kids.

The court said NO. The man owns those files, not the children. When the man dies, the files go away into the clear blue sky; not a cloud to be seen!

For a very long time, when we died we could leave our records, VHS tapes, cartridges, and CDs to anyone we chose. The collection that you paid for and acquired was yours, and the physical media was in your possession.

In this brave new world that will no longer be the case. You do not possess what you own. And it can be taken away from you.

THAT is my concern.

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2013 - 10:00 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

What Dyfrynt said.

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2013 - 10:13 AM   
 By:   Warunsun   (Member)

I still play and record audio cassettes occasionally. Sometimes they do sound awful. I have even transferred digital download audio to the same cassette tapes of old. I have never owned a portable MP3 player but recently did upgrade my mobile phone. With a set of headphones it works great as a MP3 player but still doesn't totally replace my audio cassettes. My automobile still has a working OEM cassette tape player. So in my case I probably will miss the whole technology phase of CD players in automobiles and be in an MP3 player/flash drive situation next time I buy a new automobile.

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2013 - 11:21 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

Here is where the shit hits the fan for me. Companies are falling all over each other to move people from a physical product, CD, to a completely digital computer file, MP3 or any of its variants.

AND these same companies are falling all over each other trying to get people to let them store all your files for you. In the wispy, cuddly, cloud. Which is a extremely clever Trojan Horse way of NOT saying they will store what you supposedly own on their servers.





Every newly produced CD you buy is from a hi-res master, but they are drastically down-sampled for CD. It's amusing how CD buyers look down on mp3, when all the while their preferred format is itself hamstrung by low-res sound.
The cloud (and faster wi-fi) is aimed at allowing easier, faster download and cheap storage of the much bigger hi-res files (of all kinds) that are already waiting to be released. It's nothing to do with trying to get people to switch to mp3 from CD – the idea is to leave mp3 (and CD) far behind and enable higher resolution distribution to become widespread and easy to manage.
Whether my dear old aunt prefers pre-recorded cassettes or CDs on her shelf doesn't really matter. The formats are both defunct and the only difference is cassettes are dead and buried while CDs are still undergoing their autopsy.
Proponents of VHS used to swear they wouldn't switch to DVD because the new format didn't record (at that time) and that it was all a nasty plot to stop people recording free from TV and make them buy movies instead. Big improvements in quality were disregarded by the pro-VHS folks.
Arguments in favor of CD are equally shortsighted.

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2013 - 3:48 PM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

Every newly produced CD you buy is from a hi-res master, but they are drastically down-sampled for CD. It's amusing how CD buyers look down on mp3, when all the while their preferred format is itself hamstrung by low-res sound.
The cloud (and faster wi-fi) is aimed at allowing easier, faster download and cheap storage of the much bigger hi-res files (of all kinds) that are already waiting to be released. It's nothing to do with trying to get people to switch to mp3 from CD – the idea is to leave mp3 (and CD) far behind and enable higher resolution distribution to become widespread and easy to manage.
Whether my dear old aunt prefers pre-recorded cassettes or CDs on her shelf doesn't really matter. The formats are both defunct and the only difference is cassettes are dead and buried while CDs are still undergoing their autopsy.
Proponents of VHS used to swear they wouldn't switch to DVD because the new format didn't record (at that time) and that it was all a nasty plot to stop people recording free from TV and make them buy movies instead. Big improvements in quality were disregarded by the pro-VHS folks.
Arguments in favor of CD are equally shortsighted.


Pardon my loud yawn. If that sounds like Utopia to you, then by all means, go live on your cloud and enjoy your super high-res files. I can see that you're a man ahead of his time.

How do you suppose ON DANGEROUS GROUND will sound in super high-res?

Your little diatribe reminds me of a Steve Martin routine from one of his late-70s LPs, about how he had an old monaural record player but that was too boring to listen to, so he went out and bought himself a stereo. After a while, though, he decided that wasn't really good enough either, what he really needed was a quadrophonic system with four speakers. So he bought one and listened to that for awhile. But that didn't quite get it either, so he was just going to have to go out and buy himself a googlephonic system with a moonrock needle (this was before CDs). I'm sure by now he'll have bought into an ultra high-res music "collection" that lives on a cloud.

Thankfully I'll probably be dead by the time people let the recording industry hornswaggle them into paying a lot of money for nothing, other than limited and controlled access (a la iTunes) to music which for the most part will not be significantly improved by this explosion of sonic capabilities you describe, because it was recorded in the 40s or 50s or 60s or 70s, with the recording technologies of those eras. Probably the Tadlow stuff will sound pretty spectacular in high-res though, right? Oh, wait. Hmmm. They sound pretty spectacular already, don't they?

Perfectly happy with my CDs, thanks. But by all means, you forge right ahead, and bear proudly the standard of "the new consumer." P. T. Barnum is up there somewhere, grinning.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2013 - 4:38 PM   
 By:   follow me   (Member)


Probably the Tadlow stuff will sound pretty spectacular in high-res though, right? Oh, wait. Hmmm. They sound pretty spectacular already, don't they?

Perfectly happy with my CDs, thanks. But by all means, you forge right ahead, and bear proudly the standard of "the new consumer." P. T. Barnum is up there somewhere, grinning.


I guess the main problem is: most people will not even be able to hear any difference. If you are older than 40, you are lucky if you can hear frequencies above 14000Hz. So, high-res will primarily be a means to earn money.

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2013 - 5:13 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)


Thankfully I'll probably be dead by the time people let the recording industry hornswaggle them into paying a lot of money for nothing,







Don't worry. After you're gone, your post will still be on here. If you like, in three years time I can repost it for you in your absence, in a new thread, as a perfect example of how blinkered some people were in 2013.

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2013 - 6:32 PM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)


Thankfully I'll probably be dead by the time people let the recording industry hornswaggle them into paying a lot of money for nothing,







Don't worry. After you're gone, your post will still be on here. If you like, in three years time I can repost it for you in your absence, in a new thread, as a perfect example of how blinkered some people were in 2013.


And with the inclusion of your own comments, how vain and arrogant some others were...

 
 Posted:   Jul 1, 2013 - 10:11 AM   
 By:   Dyfrynt   (Member)



Every newly produced CD you buy is from a hi-res master, but they are drastically down-sampled for CD. It's amusing how CD buyers look down on mp3, when all the while their preferred format is itself hamstrung by low-res sound.
The cloud (and faster wi-fi) is aimed at allowing easier, faster download and cheap storage of the much bigger hi-res files (of all kinds) that are already waiting to be released. It's nothing to do with trying to get people to switch to mp3 from CD – the idea is to leave mp3 (and CD) far behind and enable higher resolution distribution to become widespread and easy to manage.

Arguments in favor of CD are equally shortsighted.


It is astonishing, and not at all amusing to me, how some people can COMPLETELY miss the point of a post. The point was never about sound quality. It was never about newer technology improving the listening experience over older technology. Let me make my point again, as plain and simple as I possibly can.

Once your data is only to be found on some big corporation's server farm, you will own nothing that you have purchased.

You want to debate that, I'm all ears.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 1, 2013 - 10:18 AM   
 By:   sdtom   (Member)

We have had a number of threads about the pros and cons of physical media vs. digital files, focusing on audio fidelity, having a dependable, hard source copy, etc.

I am asking the question from a purely psychological standpoint.

I am primarily interested in hearing from people roughly in my age group, folks who came of age during the LP era, pre-CD, pre-digital files, the so-called "digital immigrants."

I have a true affection and affinity for my LPs, and have no interest in getting rid of them at this stage of my life. In fact, I'm still buying them.

However, I do not have this connection with CDs, despite the fact that I've been buying them since 1991 or so. They seem cold, alien. The size is not substantial enough to draw me in with the artwork.

While I'm keeping my LPs, I am strongly considering giving up the CDs and hanging on to only the digital files. However, the digital immigrant in me is reluctant to do so, because I still connect to physical objects.

Has anyone in my age group - again, who came of age in the LP era - given up the physical medium of the CD and fully embraced digital files, and if so, what has the experience been? Do you feel liberated? Have regrets?

I'm curious...


I can't give up any of the formats. I still have 78's
Tom

 
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