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 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 9:31 AM   
 By:   Other Tallguy   (Member)

Courage, Steiner, Goldsmith, Horner. Together.

With honorable mention to Kaplan and Fried.

I still think Charlie X is the definitive Trek score. Recorded 47 years ago tomorrow! (Gee, there should be a thread about that…)

As PERFECT as Goldsmith’s score for TMP is, I think Horner’s two scores are better than the rest of Goldsmith’s Star Trek scores.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 9:34 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

Courage, Steiner, Goldsmith, Horner. Together.

With honorable mention to Kaplan and Fried.

I still think Charlie X is the definitive Trek score. Recorded 47 years ago tomorrow! (Gee, there should be a thread about that…)

As PERFECT as Goldsmith’s score for TMP is, I think Horner’s two scores are better than the rest of Goldsmith’s Star Trek scores.


Well III is pretty darn sleepy, and a whole lot ripped off to my ears. Stealing Enterprise the best piece, but really better than Star Trek V. No, do not think so. Likewise anything in Star Trek II is good, sometimes the naval combat themes work pretty well, but the texture and composition of the work is small fry compared to any Jerry ST scorem and pales next to STV

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 9:34 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

Courage, Steiner, Goldsmith, Horner. Together.

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 9:44 AM   
 By:   OnlyGoodMusic   (Member)

As PERFECT as Goldsmith’s score for TMP is, I think Horner’s two scores are better than the rest of Goldsmith’s Star Trek scores.

The Search for Spock is VASTLY inferior to WRATH OF KHAN musically, which kind of figures considering the evidence of Horner's "sequel scores" (Cocoon, anyone). I'd agree that WRATH OF KHAN is probably the second best movie ST score after TMP, again, rip-offs notwithstanding.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 11:13 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

I think the question being asked here is "who is the greatest Star Trek comploser", and for me the answer is obvious.

You have to forget your favourites, whether it's Horner, or Goldsmith, or in my case Giacchino, and go right back to the start. Without that perfect opening - the ethereal introduction, the uplifting fanfare, the sudden headlong rush into music that got the juices flowing for a new groundbreaking adventure, and not forgetting of course Kirk's immediately iconic mission speech - there IS no Star Trek.

Everything after TOS is johnny-come-lately and owes its very existence to that wonderful opening couple of minutes. I genuinely feel that Courage's music is too integral a part of the whole phenomenon not to be the answer.

TG

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 11:20 AM   
 By:   Jeyl   (Member)

- The Search for Spock is VASTLY inferior to WRATH OF KHAN musically,

...Naw. I think the score is quite excellent. Like what Horner did with Star Trek II, he gave familiar elements new themes that don't feel out of place. I listen to STID's take on the Klingons and it's just utterly forgettable. That self-destruct piece that slowly builds up is one of my favorite musical pieces in the whole film franchises.

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 11:20 AM   
 By:   Trent B.   (Member)

For the films definitely Goldsmith. For the TV series of TOS Courage gets my vote. For TNG, Ron Jones for sure. Deep Space Nine, that's a toss up because there's a lot of good music. For Voyager it's a tie between McCarthy and Jay Chattaway. For Enterprise again a toss up on that.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 11:47 AM   
 By:   Traveling Matt   (Member)

Mileage may vary indeed...

For the films, I'm tied between Goldsmith and Horner. In a singular sense I'd go with Goldsmith, but the 1-2 punch of Wrath and Search makes for a huge musical anchor to the original crew films that's tough to ignore for the sake of what comes from the quality of just one standalone film. The First Contact theme might be my favorite of any of the films though.

For the original TV series, my favorite composer is George Duning but, like others, I adore Steiner, Fried and Kaplan as well. I'd place Steiner at the top in terms of contribution; his sound is more "Trek" than anyone else's, past or present, and that's not likely to be topped in the future.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 4:09 PM   
 By:   musicalpyramid   (Member)

I don't like the 'well of course it is obviously X composer, because clearly X is head and shoulders above all others' attitude some people have. By all means have an opinion, but that doesnt mean that that opinion is self-evident to anyone else.

If I based the answer not on who is most associated with the music from ST or contributed the most, and go instead with who I enjoy then its an even spread between Horner, Rosenman and Giacchino. I cant deny of course the importance of the Goldsmith music to ST, it's just that, as with a number of his scores, I just don't enjoy them all that much. Totally subjective of course, but there it is. Goldsmith is very hit and miss for me - not doubting his considerable capacity as a very talented composer at all. But my enjoyment of film music is primarily routed in the emotional and intelectual stimulation that it provokes. It has to connect quite deeply. Horner's Stealing the Enterprise, or Rosenmans the Whaler, or Giacchino's arrangement of the original theme at the end of the reboot manage that.

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 4:18 PM   
 By:   BornOfAJackal   (Member)

Movies: Jerry Goldsmith

TV: Gerald Fried

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 4:33 PM   
 By:   filmsonwax   (Member)

Obvs Courage and Fried are massive and deserve recognition. but in terms of highest quality musical contribution, the answer is clear: Jerry Goldsmith. Whatever the quality of his other scores (personally, V is incredible and while his TNG scores don't reach it the themes are unbelievable), TMP is not just the best of Trek, for me it's the best of film music period. As much as I adore TWOK and SFS, no way I could say that about Jamie's work.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 4:38 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)



How I wish I could be living in such a small world. Everything would be SO easy. wink



If avoiding a kitsch movie series from the worst decade in recent history constitutes living in a small world, I'll gladly stay. wink

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 5:22 PM   
 By:   Timmer   (Member)



The Search for Spock is VASTLY inferior to WRATH OF KHAN musically

How so? Perhaps Mr Rulez could explain???

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 6:23 PM   
 By:   Zoragoth   (Member)


Really?
STWOK is a good score, not a great one.
TSFS has it's moments.

But compared to Jerry, or a lot of other ST composers -- nah, not really the best.


Though there is much to admire in Horner's ST scores, I find them a distant second to Goldsmith's. The Mutara Nebula battle has some outstanding, suspenseful music - when he's not shamelessly quoting Prokofiev - but I find his music for Khan and the Klingons tired and unimaginative, and had that reaction even upon the films' initial releases. And that main theme! Yes, it is sweeping and nautical, as requested, but I find it rather wan and limp.

Am I the only one who finds Horner's main ST theme wanting?

And for some reason, when I hear Goldsmith Trek scores, I hear "big-budget first class adventure epic."

When I listen to Horner's, I hear "pinched, low-budget studio-bound Made-for-TV sci-fi flick."

OK, maybe I exaggerate just a trifle, but then again, Jerry's wonderful, expansive VOYAGER TV theme sounds more theatrical than Horner's theatrical scores!

Anyone agree?

And though Eidelman's Main Title was a one-shot deal, effectively signalling an unusual and elegiac Trek film dealing with darkness and tragedy, I find it a much bolder, compelling listen. If there had been a seventh original cast film, I would have loved to have heard how he might have approached a new Trek storyline and tone.

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 6:28 PM   
 By:   Warunsun   (Member)

Goldsmith.

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 6:28 PM   
 By:   Zoragoth   (Member)

Obvs Courage and Fried are massive and deserve recognition. but in terms of highest quality musical contribution, the answer is clear: Jerry Goldsmith. Whatever the quality of his other scores (personally, V is incredible and while his TNG scores don't reach it the themes are unbelievable), TMP is not just the best of Trek, for me it's the best of film music period. As much as I adore TWOK and SFS, no way I could say that about Jamie's work.

Jerry's TMP score, as you say, is not just the best TREK score, it's also a landmark science-fiction film score, *and* a landmark in film scoring period.

I don't think you can say that about any of the others.

I love THE FINAL FRONTIER, too.

And Courage, Fried, and Steiner - how I would have loved to see them get their shots at scoring the movies!

And I would have loved to see what Jerry would have done with WRATH OF KHAN. Truly a missed opportunity.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 6:39 PM   
 By:   RM Eastman   (Member)

I find this a very difficult call. James Horner is so close. Alexander Courage is close. But in the end, I call it a tie between Gerald Fried and Fred Steiner.


You are joking, right?


JERRY GOLDSMITH By far no competion, correct.

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 6:43 PM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

If the only piece of music Jerry Goldsmith had written for STAR TREK was the opening Klingon Battle scene in ST:TMP, he would win this hands down. It's one of the best scored sequences in movies, period.

It really becomes no contest when you consider the rest of his ST output.

For TV only, I would say Gerald Fried because of the many great themes he wrote that were used over and over. My single favorite TOS score is Sol Kaplan's "The Doomsday Machine", though.

Much as I loved the shows, the music for TNG, Voyager, Enterprise, and DS9 I can only describe as disappointingly low-key (except the title themes for all except Enterprise).

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2013 - 7:23 PM   
 By:   musicpaladin2007   (Member)



Much as I loved the shows, the music for TNG, Voyager, Enterprise, and DS9 I can only describe as disappointingly low-key (except the title themes for all except Enterprise).


Er, have to respectfully disagree. Most of TNG, probably, I'll grant you that along with early DS9 and even maybe the first season or 2 of Voyager. But when you get to later Voyager and DS9 and Enterprise, there is truly some outstanding stuff there that is anything but low key.

 
 Posted:   Aug 29, 2013 - 1:03 AM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

Er, have to respectfully disagree. Most of TNG, probably, I'll grant you that along with early DS9 and even maybe the first season or 2 of Voyager. But when you get to later Voyager and DS9 and Enterprise, there is truly some outstanding stuff there that is anything but low key.


One problem for a lot of us is the sheer number of episodes involved. The four spinoff series (TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT) put together have 617 episodes. Quite a few of those, I saw only once each, and I'm not 100 percent sure I even saw every episode of ENTERPRISE.

Q: Were any of those 617 episodes tracked entirely with pre-existing music, or perhaps partially?

 
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