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 Posted:   Feb 22, 2014 - 8:44 PM   
 By:   dyplorus   (Member)

Warner Bros. has a library, off the lot, where they keep a lot of MGM material. I contacted them with the hope of reaching a contact I had there, only to find he had left a year ago and the woman on the phone said it wasn't a research library to outsiders, only for internal use. She suggested I contact Ned Comstock, who I believe is at UCLA.

Ned is at USC. I went through the M-G-M music material when we did FSM CDs, and I never came across anything related to advertising or trailers unless they were scored at the time of the film.

Lukas


someone on the last page said something about how mgm today isn't the same as before...maybe its the "wrong" mgm?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 23, 2014 - 12:27 AM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

Warner Bros. has a library, off the lot, where they keep a lot of MGM material. I contacted them with the hope of reaching a contact I had there, only to find he had left a year ago and the woman on the phone said it wasn't a research library to outsiders, only for internal use. She suggested I contact Ned Comstock, who I believe is at UCLA.

Ned is at USC. I went through the M-G-M music material when we did FSM CDs, and I never came across anything related to advertising or trailers unless they were scored at the time of the film.

Lukas


someone on the last page said something about how mgm today isn't the same as before...maybe its the "wrong" mgm?



dyplorus.....you're grasping at very flimsy straws now. Lukas went through the CORRECT MGM material. (In my earlier post I was attempting to explain to you that today's MGM is really United Artists, and yesterdays MGM material is owned by Turner/Warners.) Lukas is a very thorough researcher---he had to be for his extensive and detailed filmmusic liner notes related to these films--- and if he says he found NO paper documentation for the MGM trailers or documentaries you can fully believe that he didn't.

I think you need to stop posting here and start watching (and listening) to old MGM films for their music content which might be used as stock. I think there are about 1900 or so MGM films in the Warner library. You could probably discard the 1930s material and start in the 1940s and particularly in the 1950s material. If you discarded the musicals and seemingly non-relevant genres (comedies, westerns, etc) you could probably winnow your viewing down to about 700-900 films. Starting tomorrow and watching only 3 movies a day, it wouldn't even take you a year to get through 900.

Get some sleep tonight and start in the morning.

 
 Posted:   Feb 23, 2014 - 9:06 AM   
 By:   Stefan Huber   (Member)

If nobody here can come up with an answer I pretty much doubt that anyone would know - especially if these things were not documented as Lukas has written above. I doubt that even the person preparing the trailer (if still alive) would know fifty years after its creation.

Even if we found out the movie or TV show this recording has been created for (or find other "presentations" it has been used in if it is pure stock music), there's still a pretty slim chance that it still exists in its music-only form.

I have not seen the "Zhivago" trailer for years and still remember the theme - so I would also be interested to know its source, but I think it's a lost case frown

 
 Posted:   Feb 23, 2014 - 12:27 PM   
 By:   Stefan Huber   (Member)

Another interesting question (for manderley?) popped up for me - though this has little to do with the original inquiry: would editors "unnecessarily" pull nitrate-era material for a 1965 trailer - or would they have been aware of the risks by then (the least being permanently losing the fragile master)?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 23, 2014 - 6:24 PM   
 By:   dyplorus   (Member)

Warner Bros. has a library, off the lot, where they keep a lot of MGM material. I contacted them with the hope of reaching a contact I had there, only to find he had left a year ago and the woman on the phone said it wasn't a research library to outsiders, only for internal use. She suggested I contact Ned Comstock, who I believe is at UCLA.

Ned is at USC. I went through the M-G-M music material when we did FSM CDs, and I never came across anything related to advertising or trailers unless they were scored at the time of the film.

Lukas


someone on the last page said something about how mgm today isn't the same as before...maybe its the "wrong" mgm?



dyplorus.....you're grasping at very flimsy straws now. Lukas went through the CORRECT MGM material. (In my earlier post I was attempting to explain to you that today's MGM is really United Artists, and yesterdays MGM material is owned by Turner/Warners.) Lukas is a very thorough researcher---he had to be for his extensive and detailed filmmusic liner notes related to these films--- and if he says he found NO paper documentation for the MGM trailers or documentaries you can fully believe that he didn't.

I think you need to stop posting here and start watching (and listening) to old MGM films for their music content which might be used as stock. I think there are about 1900 or so MGM films in the Warner library. You could probably discard the 1930s material and start in the 1940s and particularly in the 1950s material. If you discarded the musicals and seemingly non-relevant genres (comedies, westerns, etc) you could probably winnow your viewing down to about 700-900 films. Starting tomorrow and watching only 3 movies a day, it wouldn't even take you a year to get through 900.

Get some sleep tonight and start in the morning.


Well I would do that, but unfortunately I am in school, and I have classes in the morning and a night-time class starting at 6:30 on wednesdays...Basically I don't have time to do that. I love this piece too much to give it up. And I'm starting to doubt its creation by MGM given what Lukas has said, and I'm starting to think it was created by the Thomas Craven Film Corporation, I've noticed they use similar music and sometimes even the same music in other trailers. The reason why I'm pinning it on them it because in multiple trailers where I've heard the same music I've noticed at the end it mentions being a production of that company. I'll be searching there for now. And I'm going to keep posting on this topic because I know that it can put this topic back at the top of the list in the forums for people to see and click on. On forums the saying "out of sight out of mind" very much applies to whether a thread stays alive or not. And right now, this is my most reliable hope. *knocks on wood*

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 2, 2014 - 1:53 AM   
 By:   dyplorus   (Member)

No one has found it yet have they? ._.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 5, 2014 - 12:04 AM   
 By:   dyplorus2   (Member)

I FOUND IT!! I ACTUALLY FOUND IT!!!!!!!!!

WOOOOHOOOOHOHOHOHOHOHO!!!

I couldn't remember my old password and for some reason I couldn't reset my password, so I got another account so I could rush over here and tell you guys!!!1

The song is called "Bold Horizons" performed by group-fifty orchestra and Laurie Johnson!!!

I CAN'T BELIEVE AFTER ALL THIS TIME I FOUND IT!!!

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 5, 2014 - 1:25 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

I FOUND IT!! I ACTUALLY FOUND IT!!!!!!!!!

WOOOOHOOOOHOHOHOHOHOHO!!!

I couldn't remember my old password and for some reason I couldn't reset my password, so I got another account so I could rush over here and tell you guys!!!1

The song is called "Bold Horizons" performed by group-fifty orchestra and Laurie Johnson!!!

I CAN'T BELIEVE AFTER ALL THIS TIME I FOUND IT!!!


I'm amazed that you found it. Very odd that MGM didn't use their own library music. I see that the music was originally recorded by Laurie Johnson on 78rpm vinyl (didn't know there was such a thing) in 1961:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Horizons-KPM095-library-non-audible-Johnson/dp/B00BF0LFQC/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1407226961&sr=1-1&keywords=group+fifty+bold+horizons

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 5, 2014 - 1:25 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

The dreaded duplicate!

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 5, 2014 - 2:34 AM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

Sincere congratulations dyplorus!

This was a really tough search and you did a good job.

How did you happen to find a path to the answer?

Was the Thomas Craven Film Company part of the solution?

If the stock music didn't come from MGM, but a usual stock music
provider like KPM, then the trailers and promo films were more likely
assembled independently (subject to MGM's final approval) by an
outside service like this Thomas Craven Film Company you referenced
before.

The studios had begun to abandon their trailer and title departments in
the sixties, a lot of the work went to these outside contractors, particularly
the bigger companies like National Screen Service, who cut trailers and also
designed print and poster advertising, and Pacfic Title, who designed and
executed Main Titles and Special Matte paintings. Companies like Robin's
Nest Productions and Kaleidoscope Films---who often did TV commercials and
corporate promos---branched out into the 10-minute "Making Of" short films,
as well. And their working materials, like stock music and stock images,
were generally sourced from suppliers beyond the major studio walls.

 
 Posted:   Aug 5, 2014 - 7:13 PM   
 By:   MusicUnite   (Member)

WILLIAMDMCCRUM:

"The bit that's near the end is very like Malcolm Arnold, and I'd say 'Inn of the Sixth Happiness', the London Prelude, but Arnold recycled his stuff so often that I can't be sure it's not from somewhere else."

I know you don't care for Arnold's music, which is of course, fine. We all can't like the same composers. However, I wish you would enlighten me as to what Arnold recycled?

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 6, 2014 - 1:11 AM   
 By:   DavidRayner1947   (Member)

MGM still owe me for the cost of their Doctor Zhivago soundtrack LP, which, thanks to them, I bought in error. In 1970, I ran the film at the cinema where I was the projectionist. Two weeks before it played, we ran the ten minute documentary "Zhivago - Behind The Camera With David Lean" and I was very impressed with the music in it as described in this thread. A week later, we ran the CinemaScope trailer, which also contained this music, giving the misleading impression that the music was in the film. So I went out and spent £2 on the soundtrack LP and was very disappointed to find that the music was nowhere on it. So I assumed they had simply left it off, but that it must be in the actual film. When we ran the film a week later, the music wasn't anywhere in that, either. I felt cheated. I can only assume that the music had been included in the short and the trailer to make the score seem far better than it actually was.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 6, 2014 - 1:37 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

I get the distinct impression that posters are not reading recent messages on this thread................Adding to the confusion is that there are now two threads on the same subject.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 6, 2014 - 1:45 AM   
 By:   DavidRayner1947   (Member)

Sorry, Doug. I jumped the gun a bit there. I would never have throught it was a Laurie Johnson piece, as it doesn't sound like his style at all. But how do you know it's called Bold Horizons, as you can't play any of the music on that amazon listing. Have you perhaps heard it under that title elsewhere?

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 6, 2014 - 2:15 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

Sorry, Doug. I jumped the gun a bit there. I would never have throught it was a Laurie Johnson piece, as it doesn't sound like his style at all. But how do you know it's called Bold Horizons, as you can't play any of the music on that amazon listing. Have you perhaps heard it under that title elsewhere?

I don't know anything smile It's all the work of dyplorus and he provides a link where one can listen to the music on the other thread: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=104855&forumID=1&archive=0

 
 Posted:   Aug 6, 2014 - 7:04 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

WILLIAMDMCCRUM:

"The bit that's near the end is very like Malcolm Arnold, and I'd say 'Inn of the Sixth Happiness', the London Prelude, but Arnold recycled his stuff so often that I can't be sure it's not from somewhere else."

I know you don't care for Arnold's music, which is of course, fine. We all can't like the same composers. However, I wish you would enlighten me as to what Arnold recycled?



Who says I don't care for Malcolm Arnold's music? Where do you get this from?

He DID recycle, self-evidently. People don't always get musical variation it seems. The themes for 'Hill in Korea', 'River Kwai' (the main adventure theme), 'Heroes of Telemark', 'Dinkirk', even 'Sixth Happiness' and a few others, are all within the rules of musical variation. Since this is a film-music forum, I'll say that there are wider differences between the variations in Rozsa's 'Theme, Variations and Finale' or Kodaly's 'Peacock Variations' or Rach's 'Paganini' variations than between those tunes of Arnold's.

He infected his friend Walton with this too (over beers) whose 'Battle of Britain' score is 50% Arnold COMPOSED (not merely orchestrated) and whose march is a simple variation on 'Orb and Sceptre' another 'skipping' part of which turned up again in 'History of the English Speaking People'.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 4, 2014 - 5:37 AM   
 By:   DavidRayner1947   (Member)

I’m very pleased to say that I have managed to obtain from a specialist eBay seller the 78 rpm 10 inch vinyl single “Bold Horizons” composed by Laurie Johnson and played truly spectacularly by the Group Fifty Orchestra. It arrived today; I’ve just played it; am over the moon with it and I can definitely proclaim that this is the exact same recording that was used extensively and uncredited in the short “Zhivago – Behind The Camera With David Lean” and in the CinemaScope trailer for “Doctor Zhivago”, giving the misleading impression that the music was actually in the film. It’s taken me 44 years from first hearing the music to finally getting it on a record. I would sincerely like to thank dyplorus for identifying the title for me. The disc is in superb condition and cost me £10 ($17), five times as much as the "Doctor Zhivago" MGM soundtrack LP that I bought in 1970 and that didn't have this music anywhere on it.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 4, 2014 - 8:24 AM   
 By:   DavidRayner1947   (Member)

Oh, yes, and the 'B' side is entitled "Morning Splendour", again composed by Laurie Johnson. Very nicely played, but nothing special and a huge contrast to the 'A' side.

 
 Posted:   Sep 4, 2014 - 8:52 AM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

Hooray.

Amazon.com has that title for an MP3 download.

Listened to it and you're correct. That IS what I hear on that trailer!

Well done!

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 4, 2014 - 10:08 AM   
 By:   DavidRayner1947   (Member)

Thanks, Ron. I'm glad it's available also as an MP3 download for those unlike me who don't have access to a record player that can play 78s as well as 33s and 45s. My early 1970s stereo record player is over forty years old and still going strong.

 
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